Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Need to do a lot of balancing

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    55

    Need to do a lot of balancing

    Hello just got my test results in and obviously the the 1st thing I need to do is adjust pH and TA. My questions for now is at what rate and in what order should I be adding Washing Soda (Sorry I don't have any Borax) and calcium chloride. Here is my most current pool chemistry

    FC - 0.1
    TC - 0.1
    CC - 0
    pH - 6.5
    Hardness - 15
    TA - 8
    CYA - 2
    Copper 0.6
    Iron 0.1 ppm

    While going through the original owners chemicals I accidentally added a copper based algaecide and guess they were also using it in the past. Since the other levels were so off I plumbed the heater out of the system as I'm sure the water was eating the cores up as well. I'd still like to meet the individual who added a heather into the system with out a bypass lol. The pool is also way over filled it has been raining like crazy here, so I'll be getting a small percentage of the copper out as I remove water.

    Thanks in advance for all your help.
    26K Gallon, IG vinyl
    1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump, DE Filter 36 SqFt
    Older than time TELEDYNE LAARS HEATER (removed from system for now)

  2. Back To Top    #2
    pwrstrk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Elverson Pa.
    Posts
    4,758

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    What test kit did you get those results from ?


    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    977

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Those are pool store results, which are never accurate. First step is to buy a proper test kit that is linked to in my signature. No need to adjust CH in a vinyl pool. I think a copper level of .6 is high, but I am not sure. That might effect the steps necessary to balance your pool, so I will let the experts comment on that.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

  4. Back To Top    #4

    In the Industry

    Donldson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    2,637

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Wow, either there are a lot of typos or your pool store testing is going out of it's way to give you some crazy numbers. CYA of 2? FC of 0.1? That's bordering on just plain fake.

    Anyway, if your TA and pH are really that low then washing soda is a good choice, as it will raise both, and go ahead and add it first to get back to about 7.2. You will need to get your chlorine level up too, but two problems keeping me from giving you a recommendation. First, no idea if you even have any CYA. It is most likely between 0 and 20 but without knowing we can't really give you a target FC. Second, if your copper reading is accurate I don't know what affect that will have, so someone else will have to weigh in on whether there are any potential problems to be had, such as staining or green water.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    55

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Yea, they are from the pool store, a good test kit is on order. However, the pool has been closed and untreated for over a year and pretty much looks like a swamp. The .6 Copper is decently high, but I'll retest it again after I get the water level corrected and use a sequestering agent if need be.

    Thanks for the quick responses.
    26K Gallon, IG vinyl
    1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump, DE Filter 36 SqFt
    Older than time TELEDYNE LAARS HEATER (removed from system for now)

  6. Back To Top    #6
    techguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Antelope, CA
    Posts
    2,687

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    While waiting for you TFP test kit, I would focus on keeping youFC in the correct range for an assumed 30ppm CYA. It will allow you at least keep the pool clear. I didn't see you mentioning green. Poolcalculator will tell you how much chlorine to add. If is sunny, assume you are loosing most or all FC each day and add enough CL to make the target. When your kit arrives, you can measure where you are at.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

  7. Back To Top    #7
    techguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Antelope, CA
    Posts
    2,687

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Oh.. I just read...swamp. Ok, different goal.... Use the CYA chart in PoolSchool ( it's more aggressive) and add enough chlorine to get to the shock level based on a 20CYA. This is likely to be several gallons of bleach. Then read and understand the PoolSchool while you wait. Do you have a yellow scale OTO chlorine test? If so, aim for a good solid orange color and add enough FC each day and night to get back to orange. The pool will likely consume most of the FC each day. You are looking to make the water a cloudy white green color and then filter becomes your best tool.

    Run you pump 24/7 and watch you pressures.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    55

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Quote Originally Posted by techguy
    Oh.. I just read...swamp. Ok, different goal.... Use the CYA chart in PoolSchool ( it's more aggressive) and add enough chlorine to get to the shock level based on a 20CYA. This is likely to be several gallons of bleach. Then read and understand the PoolSchool while you wait. Do you have a yellow scale OTO chlorine test? If so, aim for a good solid orange color and add enough FC each day and night to get back to orange. The pool will likely consume most of the FC each day. You are looking to make the water a cloudy white green color and then filter becomes your best tool.

    Run you pump 24/7 and watch you pressures.

    Yes, I do have an OTO test thanks for the advice, and I've read the pool school through quite a few times it's been a great help already.

    I know flock can be hit or miss, but since it is already half way through our season, after I get the pool to a cloudy white would it be advisable to flock and vacuum to waste? This could cut way down on filtering time and would also remove more copper from the pool. Thanks again.
    26K Gallon, IG vinyl
    1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump, DE Filter 36 SqFt
    Older than time TELEDYNE LAARS HEATER (removed from system for now)

  9. Back To Top    #9

    In the Industry

    Donldson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    2,637

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Floc could help, but if you are properly SLAMing the pool I don't think you will see much improvement from it. Since you already have a DE filter it should clear fairly quickly. It also won't do anything to help remove copper, metals don't filter out.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    55

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Donldson
    Floc could help, but if you are properly SLAMing the pool I don't think you will see much improvement from it. Since you already have a DE filter it should clear fairly quickly. It also won't do anything to help remove copper, metals don't filter out.
    Oh yea, I realize the floc won't remove copper, the water I would loss while vacuuming to waste would remove some though. Well the whole floc thing is a hypothetical, so I guess I'll make that judgement call after I see how well the filter clears up the water. Thanks
    26K Gallon, IG vinyl
    1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump, DE Filter 36 SqFt
    Older than time TELEDYNE LAARS HEATER (removed from system for now)

  11. Back To Top    #11
    techguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Antelope, CA
    Posts
    2,687

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    No FLOC...

    Your DE will filter it soon enough. Actually your DE is going to filter it soooo fast you need to clean your filter and bump it (if you can) every hour when you are getting really efficient filtering. If you can let the junk settle and vacuum to waste, you may be a lot closer than you think.

    A swamp is the one time a DE can be a true pain in the but. My DE will clog up and pressure climb to "dirty" pressure in less than an hour with my DiverDan cleaning the dirty floor. My clean pressure is about 10PSI and a swamp will get me to 18 PSI in hours. A vacuum in the pool will got from 10-18 in less than 30 miinutes when i a getting to the end of my media's life. When i get there, i take my filter apart and clean the fingers (grids) with a garden hose.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    55

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Back to my 1st question, since I have to add a ton of baking soda and raise the pH I should be adding in steps? As I'm sure I should not be dumping 30lbs of baking soda in all at once even if I do premix it. Also I'm guessing I should attack the TA 1st as that helps to stabilized pH levels and then start trying to adjust the pH. Thanks again for everyone's help.
    26K Gallon, IG vinyl
    1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump, DE Filter 36 SqFt
    Older than time TELEDYNE LAARS HEATER (removed from system for now)

  13. Back To Top    #13
    pwrstrk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Elverson Pa.
    Posts
    4,758

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Did you order a good test kit yet ?


    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    55

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrstrk
    Did you order a good test kit yet ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
    Yup already ordered. I'm not actually doing anything yet, I just looking to get some advice before I start. I've done plenty of pool chemical maintenance, but never really brought a totally green pool back to life, so I'm not sure what procedures to take when adding very large amounts of chemicals to the water. IE add a quart of chlorine, 10-15 oz of this or that but nothing like this.
    26K Gallon, IG vinyl
    1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump, DE Filter 36 SqFt
    Older than time TELEDYNE LAARS HEATER (removed from system for now)

  15. Back To Top    #15
    pwrstrk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Elverson Pa.
    Posts
    4,758

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Glad to hear. It will make your life so much easier.

    Good job


    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

  16. Back To Top    #16

    In the Industry

    Donldson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    2,637

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    You will love the freedom a good test kit provides!

    Your pH is by far more important than TA. Yes, you could get wild swings with TA that low but that is the least of your concern. 6.5 is the lowest most tests go and you could have extremely acidic water doing bad things to your liner right now. Washing soda will actually be a good help in your case, if you add about 6 lbs you should get your pH back near 7.2 and it will add about 30 TA. That should save you some baking soda later on.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    55

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Well to keep everyone updated, after running the system on circulate I knew something was up with the returns, they didn't seem to be moving the water properly. After remembering a bag full of spare parts which included a handful of eyeballs, I stuck my hand down into the green abyss to feel the returns. Yup, no eyeballs installed at least it was a quick fix.

    Next I was attacking all the leaves and dirt at the bottom of the pool. I feel something heavy at the bottom of my poll, no way this was leaves. To my dismay I pull up a giant piece of vinyl. Well it doesn't really seem to be part of the liner, the top of my liner (all that i can see) start with a thick white line and then goes into a patter diamond shapes. It doesn't look like any pattern I've ever seen on the lower part of a liner. Anyway, the piece of vinyl I pulled out is solid white with red lines on it and I hoping to god right now that its part of a float or something. I suppose a positive sign is the pool seems to be losing no water.

    Ah the adventure continues.
    26K Gallon, IG vinyl
    1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump, DE Filter 36 SqFt
    Older than time TELEDYNE LAARS HEATER (removed from system for now)

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    55

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Well I received my test kit I didn't bother testing for FC as I haven't added any chlorine to the pool and I'm not too worried about hardness.

    TA-80 I added about 12 lbs of Baking soda yesterday

    pH - 8.2 or higher its flew up, even though I only added about 3lbs of PH up.

    CYA - under 20 I could still see the dot with the tube filled to the top.

    I have Dichlor and Trichlor should I begin to SLAM with Dichlor and try to hold it with a combo of the 2 as they will both add CYA and lower my PH, or should I try to lower the pH 1st? Then according the the pool calculator's and testing I would switch over to bleach when the CYA reaches a good point. Thanks again everyone.
    26K Gallon, IG vinyl
    1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump, DE Filter 36 SqFt
    Older than time TELEDYNE LAARS HEATER (removed from system for now)

  19. Back To Top    #19
    pwrstrk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Elverson Pa.
    Posts
    4,758

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    I would lower the PH first to 7.2. Then get enough stabilizer in there to get to 30. I would use bleach for the SLAM. IMO.


    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

  20. Back To Top    #20
    pwrstrk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Elverson Pa.
    Posts
    4,758

    Re: Need to do a lot of balancing

    Forgot. The stabilizer will lower PH some also.


    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •