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Thread: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

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    Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    Not saying conclusively BUT....

    I've been chasing a FC demand issue that maintaining shock levels for days wasn't taming. Have been losing about 6ppm FC per night while trying to achieve the OCLT.

    Pool is sparkling as if there is almost no water in it. No CC or less than .5. Still consuming with no end in sight.

    Head scratcher here that has me looking for what am I missing. I've never had the light out since we bought the house a few years back. It has 2 bulbs in it and one is burnt out. Decided to take a looksee...

    Well without further delay.. Here's what I came up with.

    Could this finally be the end?? Well I have some cleaning up to do here. I'll report back to see if we begin to make headway




    A word of advice here is that if you are chasing something that isn't making sense maybe check the light niche. I must say this was an absolutely disgusting find.
    ~15k gal oasis shape, IG vinyl, 2 speed superflow 1HP ~6' above pool level, pentair TA60D 60GPM/325# sand, built 2004, intermatic 1353 and stenner chlorine injection pump, dolphin robot, and a filthy light niche

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    Yes.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    Lights always seem to be the place people never look for an FC problem Now you know why the pool was hungry.

    YUCK
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    thehowheels's Avatar
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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    I didn't realize lights could be serviced like this without draining. Now I'm curious to see what horrors await behind mine.
    Matt
    9k gallon, plaster, IG. Raised spa w/ spillover into pool. AO Smith Century Centurion / Purex Triton WisperFlo 0.5 HP, Hayward 1.5 HP (spa), Polaris 1-516-01 1.5 HP (blower). Hayward DE3620 36 ft2 72 GPM DE Filter, Polaris 145 cleaner. Pool built ~1980.
    Trouble-free, BBB since: April 25, 2013

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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    That's gross !! Glad you found your hungry monster!
    Indiana, ABG 24'x52" Galveston by Blue Cascade (Craigslist buy w/part of deck included), 13,500 gallons, Intex SWG, solar panels mix 2, TF-100 test kit.

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    Yep, looks like you found that nook or cranny the culprit was hiding

    Won't be long now til you can pass that dad burn ole OCLT
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
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    alanpaul's Avatar
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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    I can hear your pool light sighing with relief.
    Alan in Wellington, FL - near West Palm Beach
    15,200 gal IG, painted plaster, 1988; 200 SqFt cartridge filter, 2013; 1.5 HP 1-speed pump (uprated), 2005; heat pump, 2005;
    soon to repair (dead) SWG AquaRite T-15 cell, 2005, and replace (dead) suction-side cleaner, 2005.
    Almost everything died this winter 2012-'13, and I know we shouldn't complain... but, Arrgh!

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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    *Jed Clampett voice*
    WWWWYYYYYIIIIIIIIBBBBEEEEEEEE!!! THAT'S DISGUSTING!!

    So glad you found that, that's just downright gross!!! Thank the Lord for chlorine though. It has been keeping you safe from......*points finger at the black lagoon monster* THHAAAATTT!!

    It's a bit hard to tell from the pics, is that almost black algae, or is there moss and dirt in there too?
    The way it is strewn all over the pool, it looks like it just JUMPEDout of there when you opened it up. Yeah?

    I'd say It's time for a new gasket or some rtv.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    Just saw your name, and I have to ask, are you by any chance a hockey fan?
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    Wow first thread I've seen justifying the clean your light nitch advice! Wow!
    18'x43' Sport Pool
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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by y_not

    It's a bit hard to tell from the pics, is that almost black algae, or is there moss and dirt in there too?
    Hard saying I've never tangled with black algae before. This was very blackish.. or super dark green. almost dirt/mud like slimey and falls apart easy which I think is a good thing. However, some of the stuff was (still is) pretty hard to get off the surface of the niche and light enclosure. I was scrubbing and rinsing the light on the pool deck and the stuff dries hard and flaky like I think normal green algae tends to do. A few hours now of exposure the stuff I couldn't vacuum or haven't gotten to looks to have lightened/bleached out some (another good thing I think). The niche is shiny mostly, when I started it was all uck. The thing is that the stuff doesn't just wipe away and there are lots of crevices etc that will be next to impossible to get an agressive brushing into for various reasons. I'll let it cook overnight see what it looks like in the morning, and take another pass at it tomorrow. It has to be much better than before

    I think
    ~15k gal oasis shape, IG vinyl, 2 speed superflow 1HP ~6' above pool level, pentair TA60D 60GPM/325# sand, built 2004, intermatic 1353 and stenner chlorine injection pump, dolphin robot, and a filthy light niche

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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by y_not
    The way it is strewn all over the pool, it looks like it just JUMPEDout of there when you opened it up. Yeah?

    Basically did jump out.. that all was what "fell" out from taking the light out. It got worse when I started scrubbing it out.
    ~15k gal oasis shape, IG vinyl, 2 speed superflow 1HP ~6' above pool level, pentair TA60D 60GPM/325# sand, built 2004, intermatic 1353 and stenner chlorine injection pump, dolphin robot, and a filthy light niche

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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    One other thing.. I wonder how much of this wonder goo is hiding up the conduit? I'm half considering pulling the wire out and running some type of brush up that pipe.??? Probably the best thing to do... then I could soak the fixture in a bleach bucket and get it really clean (if I decide to keep this). I broke the motor wires pulling it apart. So I'm at the intersection of bite the $500 bullet for a new fixture or try the repair kit motor and gasket for $100 and hope it works.
    ~15k gal oasis shape, IG vinyl, 2 speed superflow 1HP ~6' above pool level, pentair TA60D 60GPM/325# sand, built 2004, intermatic 1353 and stenner chlorine injection pump, dolphin robot, and a filthy light niche

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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    If it's algae, it won't grow too far up the conduit because there won't be any light there. Behind the light niche there is still dim light. It's usually where yellow/mustard algae likes to grow and hide out, but what you have does look more like black algae. If it smears dark green on white paper, it's probably black algae. That's why it's hard to remove on some of the surfaces -- it has a waxy surface layer that is chlorine-resistant so you need to scrape that off to let chlorine attack what's underneath.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    For some reason I find this all very exciting to watch.

    zamboniman, I don't envy your situation, not fun, but at least you found it!
    I would suggest leaving the exposed light fixture in the shock level water so the CL can work at it, scrubbing it periodically.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by y_not
    For some reason I find this all very exciting to watch.

    One of my only regrets so far was not wearing the GoPro on my head when I went down there to start picking away at it!

    ~15k gal oasis shape, IG vinyl, 2 speed superflow 1HP ~6' above pool level, pentair TA60D 60GPM/325# sand, built 2004, intermatic 1353 and stenner chlorine injection pump, dolphin robot, and a filthy light niche

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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    Quick question.. "IF" this is the dreaded "Black Algae"... what will the "dead stuff" look like?

    Of the various black "ICK" that was stirred up in suspension yesterday, today was settled as a light pale green debris that I vacuumed up. (I have the pool at wicked shock levels as my liner has spotty bleaching anyway from previous owners preference of tossing chemicals in and letting them sit). Just wondering if the appearance of this stuff being killed off will help indicate what it may have been.

    Thanks,
    ~15k gal oasis shape, IG vinyl, 2 speed superflow 1HP ~6' above pool level, pentair TA60D 60GPM/325# sand, built 2004, intermatic 1353 and stenner chlorine injection pump, dolphin robot, and a filthy light niche

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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    Black algae still looks very dark when initially killed. It's not like green algae that generally (but not always) turns gray/white, at least not all at once. It will bleach out, but takes longer though brushing it regularly to scrape off the waxy surface layer to let chlorine expose deeper levels helps. After you scrape of the surface layers, you expose the rest to somewhat elevated chlorine levels and it will eventually fade over time. It grows slowly so the chlorine killing it slowly is still faster than it can grow.

    The problem will be that you have some inside the light niche and that doesn't get very good circulation. So you'll want to try and get rid of it as best as you can.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    So I think I'm far better off today than yesterday. "I think LOL"

    The niche is at least metal looking where yesterday it looked like a muddy hole in the side of the pool open to the earth but there are still some stubborn areas and brushing in there is difficult. Its difficult to tell if it's this gunk or corrosion in areas. The outer niche ring that you see in the pool is mostly corroded from what looked like it was once chromish. The hardest parts are where the liner is cut but still protrudes past the seal. It is curled over and there is some growth in that curl. I'm contemplating cutting the liner closer to the lip so that curl isn't there.

    I just completed another scrubbing then toss more 12% in dumping the whole gallon right over the niche area and swirling it in there. My plan right now is to leave the niche exposed until I pass the OCLT. Since the fixture needs some TLC and it's easier to work on off the pool deck I'm thinking I'll just pull the wire out from the conduit all the way (pulling a string with it). Then futs around with that separately to see if I fix it or replace it. I've got the ring and other exposed parts soaking in a bucket of super chlorine right now. If I fix the fixture I'll soak/scrub the whole back thing in a bucket of super chlorine prior to putting back in the pool. In reality we use the light very little anyway it's just nice to have for the random night swim if kids are over. I probably use it more as a night light when I'm doing maintenance after dark. I could potentially rig it back together and not have it change colors anymore as a cheap fix. Or see if I want to drop the coin on the replacement motor. That's a whole different conversation though. The key is I'll be leaving that niche open to the pool for the foreseeable future which could only be a good thing.

    One thing is for sure I'll be doing a regular light pull out as ongoing maintenance if for no other reason than to get some fresh water back there and a little brushing. Now that I know how easy it is to pull it only takes 30 seconds to get it out.

    Well that's it for today's episode of "As the Impeller Turns"
    ~15k gal oasis shape, IG vinyl, 2 speed superflow 1HP ~6' above pool level, pentair TA60D 60GPM/325# sand, built 2004, intermatic 1353 and stenner chlorine injection pump, dolphin robot, and a filthy light niche

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    Jeetyet's Avatar
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    Re: Think I may have found my FC demand issue?

    If you have a return close by and can point it directly at the niche while the light is out that'll help to clean out all the nooks and crannies and if you can keep it pointed that way after replacing the light it should help to prevent future "infections". Though not quite as nasty as yours, I had the same problem last year but since re-aiming the return its been squeaky clean in there.
    "The early bird might get the worm, but its the second mouse that gets the cheese." ~ W. Rian Adams
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    Relative's IG Vinyl | 16x32 | ~18,600 gals | Hayward 3/4hp Pump | Hayward S244T Filter | Pentair Model 300 Chlorinator (not used) | Polaris 180

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