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Thread: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

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    Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    First off, Great Forum/ Website... I have learned more about pools in one week lurking than I could ever imagine.

    My father in law just cant handle the pool work anymore so I have told him I will take over. His pool has alway been cloudy, and murky. I will do my best to make this sparkle.

    I am somewhat lucky in my line of work I have access to a water laboratory, so I am used to all of these tests, and do a lot of these tests daily. I have decided to go with 12.5% Sodium Hypoochlorite liquid as my choice. I am also lucky in that I can get it by the 30 gallon " drum" for about $1.56 a gallon.

    He has been using Sustain products. Both the 3 inch pucks, and also the "shield energizer" fast dissolving tablets. On both containers is says 68% Calcium Hypo. It also states that it contains NO stabilizers.

    He never tests or has tested his water, and just relies on the pool store to do it...no wonder every time he leaves the store he has a new chemical under his arm, and its always murky?!

    I recieved my TF-100 test kit today since it will be easier to do the tests while I am at his house than getting a sample, heading back to the lab, then heading back to his house to make the necessary adjustments.

    Here are my Findings...

    pH 7.3
    FC .5
    CC 2.0
    TC 2.5
    TA 90
    CH 680
    CYA 0

    His last test from the pool store showed a CYA of zero, and my test showed the same so and addition Cyanuric acid is in order. I will do the sock method and hang it by the return jet. Should I assume it is infact zero, or should I start a dosage a little less than the full? I see not to do any backwashing if pouring directly into the sand filter. What about the sock method? Can I backwash(if needed) using the sock method?

    My CH numbers look high, but I am assuming it could be because he has been using Calcium Hypo for the last 6+ years. Anything to worry about with readings that high? It is a vinyl liner, no plaster involved.

    I was gonna do the SLAM method this weekend, as I am off and have extra time to stay and watch the readings. I was planning on hanging the sock Friday, but was wondering if the CYA will be avaliable to help the Chlorine out by Saturday.

    One last question. If it is OK to backwash while doing the "sock CYA" thing, should I be vaccuuming and backwashing during the SLAM, or just leave it alone.

    Again....great website, great lessons on here.... Thank You all in advance....
    13500 Gal. Above Ground. Vinyl. Hayward E-100 Highrate Sand Filter with Hayward Power Flow LX pump. Installed 2006.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    Welcome to TFP!

    I would add about 30ppm of CYA. And you can backwash no problem following the shock on the return method.

    High CH can still cause scaling. So you have to watch the pH closely.

    Brush and vacuum and backwash as needed. Clean the filter when the pressure rises 20-25% over the clean pressure.

    Squeeze the sock to help it dissolve. Assume it is active once dissolved.

    I recall some word of caution about converting to chlorine from the sustain products, but not sure why. Might want to search a bit too make sure you will not have issues.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    There was just another thread about converting from Sustain, and Richard (chem geek) said something about the CC. There might have been something about adding CYA, also. I will look for the thread and post a link to it if I find it.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    Here's the other link I was talking about. Not sure if there is anything that will help you or not. help-switching-from-sustain-system-to-bbb-t65635.html
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    It sounds like you have a plan well thought out, I too would suggest raising CYA to about 30 ppm prior to SLAM, this will help keeping the sun from burning off all your chlorine right away, yet still keep your shock level low enough to be easily attainable. Your CH is a concern, but manageable if you keep a careful eye on pH and CSI, you may already know it but the common pH test will read high when FC is over about 10 ppm, so make any adjustments to pH before you start SLAM, and ignore pH reading until you are below 8-10 ppm FC. Once clear you can go ahead and raise CYA up to an appropriate level for your climate, and sun exposure conditions, you don't say where your located, so we can't help too much on that advise yet. Long term you need to get that CH under control through water replacement, but that can be done in small steps over time avoiding use of Cal-Hypo, have you tested the fill water for CH? knowing that will give you an idea of the rate at which you can lower it through water replacement.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    I appreciate all the help so far.... As far as the SLAM goes, can I put in the Chlorine right away, or should I give it say 12 hours til the CYA has somewhat dissolved... I do understand that CYA takes sometime to disslove....
    13500 Gal. Above Ground. Vinyl. Hayward E-100 Highrate Sand Filter with Hayward Power Flow LX pump. Installed 2006.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    I wouldn't wait. I'd go ahead and start it now.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    Just realize that the shock level for 0 CYA is much lower than for your target level, but that sunlight will burn off the chlorine very fast. See the FC / CYA chart in pool school

    pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock

    or the more technical long form version

    chlorine-cya-chart-t2346.html

    Ike

    If it were me I would target shock for a CYA level of 10-20 the first night, 20-30 the second day, then what ever your target level is afterward, just so you don't have it insanely high with no CYA in the water at all
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    OK... started the SLAM this morning. Last night added Cyanuric Acid in the sock method. Last night CYA was zero, and this morning was approx. 20. Others have said that it will slowly rise over next week once all get well incorporated into the system, so hopefully I will get into target range of 30-50. Test results prior to adding 12.5% Bleach are as follows:

    pH. 7.3
    TA 70
    CYA 20
    CH 650
    FC 2.0
    CC 1.5
    TC 3.5

    Calculator shows an addition of 108 oz. of 12.5% Bleach. Did that and tested 2 hours later as follows:

    FC 13.5
    CC 1.5
    TC 15.0

    looking at the CYA/Chlorine chart I am on target, maybe a touch high, but its a bright, sunny 90 degree day here in Southern Delaware, so I figure it will burn off pretty quickly.

    Plan on checking this every 2-3 hours to keep my free levels as close to shock level as possible.

    Will also check CYA level Tomorrow morning to see if Chlorine dosage needs to change.

    Pool now is very cloudy, with only the slightest hint of green. 3 days ago I hit it with some liquid chlorine when it looked like a pond, so maybe that helped a little. I couldnt start the SLAM then, as I was awaiting my test kit, and didnt want to blindly throw the bleach in the pool, without knowing my other chemical parameters.

    I know my CH is high. As someone asked me earlier in this thread, I checked the source water for the pool, and its CH was 40. It looks like through long term use of the Sustain products, without ever draining any water , could be the culprit, as Sustain is 68% Calcium Hypochlorite.

    Please comment on my path. I want to know that I am making some headway in this area. The knowlede of many of the members here is what gave me confidence that I can right this once sinking ship! Tell me if there is anything I should change, or do. I went through the walls and the floor with a brush, but since I could only see about 8 inches into the water, not too sure what is down there!?

    One last thing....Should I back wash the filter. Seems to me it may help get rid of anything that could be burning up the Free Chlorine, but dont want to deplete any CYA that may have gotten into the sand filter.

    Thanks to you all for the help!
    13500 Gal. Above Ground. Vinyl. Hayward E-100 Highrate Sand Filter with Hayward Power Flow LX pump. Installed 2006.

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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    You are on an excellent path and have a great understanding of SLAM.

    Keep an eye on your filter pressure. If it goes up by much more than about 30-40%, the flow will be drastically reduced and you will have to backwash or the progress will stall.

    You may need to add a bit more CYA after the SLAM but even if you stay at 20 ppm CYA, that is good enough for now.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    duraleigh,

    Thanks for the vote of confidence. I will defeat this beast!

    Here is a question that none of the experts want to hear, but I have to ask.....How long til this pool resemble something other than an old bird bath? Is it of order to think by next end we could be swimming?

    Thanks
    13500 Gal. Above Ground. Vinyl. Hayward E-100 Highrate Sand Filter with Hayward Power Flow LX pump. Installed 2006.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    I would not test the CYA again for a week, just assume it is all working to your target.

    The more strict you are with following the process, the faster the pool should clear up.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    Is it of order to think by next end we could be swimming?
    If you stay diligent and follow the SLAM article to the letter, 4 days or so should make a DRAMATIC difference. The final, crystal clear goal may take a bit longer....hard to say.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    To answer quick (on the way to a birthday party) yes you will need to back wash from time to time, and if things seem to stall at some point read up on adding a little DE to sand filters to speed clearing.

    Ike

    p.s. also read up on calcium clouding
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    Thanks JBL and Ike and others for Your info in this thread.

    to chart my daily progress here is my next set of tests at 315 pm...

    FC 9.5
    CC 1.0
    TC 10.5

    Since my first CYA test this morning was approx 20-30, and the CYA was just put in yesterday, I will follow Ike and assume a 10-20 CYA today, and a 20-30 for the rest of the SLAM since the FC for both are fairly close.

    I added 20 oz of Liquid Hypo at 330pm to get my FC back up to the target of 10PPM of FC.

    I dont know if it is a good thing or not, but CC went from 1.5 to 1.0.

    Will keep charting and chugging along here.

    My area of concern is I have ample time this weekend to do this, but can I get away with say 3 tests a day during my work week? Say a morning, lunchtime, and an evening test?

    Thanks again....
    13500 Gal. Above Ground. Vinyl. Hayward E-100 Highrate Sand Filter with Hayward Power Flow LX pump. Installed 2006.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    Ideally the CC should be 0, so it is a good thing it is dropping.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Ideally the CC should be 0, so it is a good thing it is dropping.

    Still very cloudy, can see maybe 12-18 inches into the water. It isn't a green cloudy, its more of a green/grayish color. I am hoping each day gets slightly less cloudy...I know, I know, its only the first 12 hours of this. Patience isn't my strong point, but I will see this thru, and probably ask too many questions

    I will say that I am not seeing the FC falling as fast as some people have commented. I have added Hypo three times today, and my biggest drop was from a FC of 12 to a FC of 9....Still seeing CC routinely 1.5 to 1...

    Last addition was just before 800pm...Back up to a FC of 12, and put the test kit away til tomorrow AM...Will check early and continue to SLAM....
    13500 Gal. Above Ground. Vinyl. Hayward E-100 Highrate Sand Filter with Hayward Power Flow LX pump. Installed 2006.

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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    Cal Hypo can contribute some cloudiness to a pool and is not my favorite for SLAMming. Are you using it because you already have it (I haven't read you whole thread)
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Cal Hypo can contribute some cloudiness to a pool and is not my favorite for SLAMming. Are you using it because you already have it (I haven't read you whole thread)
    Not using Cal Hypo.....I am using 12.5% Sodium Hypo Liquid...

    Father-in-Law was using Sustain Products previously though, which are puck/granules that are 68% Calcium Hypo...I think its the reason my CH is in the 650 region...
    13500 Gal. Above Ground. Vinyl. Hayward E-100 Highrate Sand Filter with Hayward Power Flow LX pump. Installed 2006.

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    Re: Helping out an Older Father-In-Law

    I have added Hypo three times today
    I was fooled by that statement....sorry.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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