Strongly considering a Hayward PL-Plus + 40k cell, Max Flo

[mhoy]

Need to fix my current pool setup, previous owner disconnected GoldLine solar controller and it now just turns pool pump and booster on. Will be discarding (and not replacing heater) as solar seems sufficient (85 degree pool water right now).

PL-Plus with 40K swg cell should be good for a 25K gallon pool. $1135 at poolsupply world seems reasonable.

I have two pool lights, and an attached spa with 'spa pump' for bubbles/flow (don't use either much at this point).
Do I need to order AC relays or something for the lights? Anyone tried out LED lights yet?

The PL-Plus controls up to four 120V relays, three valve actuators, one solar, and one heating system which seems like enough for my system. Anything I should consider before pulling the trigger?

Hayward Max Flo Variable Speed 1.5 HP pump to be able to dial in a quiet runtime to make us and neighbor happy. It's not clear that the Hayward PL-Plus makes any special use of a variable speed motor, but longer slow runtimes seem like a win-win for a quiet area, power usage and the SWG.

Probably also get a Aquabot 4WD pool robot and ditch the old booster + Polaris to make things quieter around the pad and save some $$ on electricity.

 

[jblizzle]

Re: Strongly considering a Hayward PL-Plus + 40k cell, Max F

I just installed the P4 with a T-15 cell ... which is equivalent to the Aqua-plus (which is what I think you are looking at).

There are only the 4 relays to control the pumps/lights and you can not expand to add more. You would have to look into the Pro Logic P8+ to get more relays. That said, the 4 should be enough for you (pump, booster, spa blower, pool lights) or get rid of the booster and have another relay for something.

Note that 2 of the valves are slaved together for the pool/spa suction and return valves. They move together. This should be fine for you. The 3rd valve would control the solar valve.

Concerns for you:
- I am not sure how the new Max Flo VS pump interfaces with this system. Hopefully it integrates and you would only need 1 of the relays and will have control of the speeds through a separate interface. I have a 2 speed pump that requires the use of 2 relays.

You could look at the pricing of the Pro Logic P4 and the cell separately (you would also need the cell install kit with flow switch and unions) ... might be cheaper. I paid $550 for the P4 and already had the cell and flow switch/unions.

The PS4 adds control of another valve and has some updated buttons with macros, but comes at a pretty hefty price increase. But, I think what you have been looking at should work just fine.

 

[jblizzle]

Re: Strongly considering a Hayward PL-Plus + 40k cell, Max F

Looking at the manual for the Max-Flo ... I do not see the ability for the speeds to be controlled by any of the automation systems. You may only be able to use the automation to turn it on and off like a regular pump, but I am not sure if that makes you lose the speed settings.

If the automation can not control the speeds, then that would prevent the automation from automatically switching to high speed for solar and then down to low speed when solar not needed.

This might be something that needs to be clarified from Hayward.

Honestly, given the apparent lack of interface between the Max Flo and the automation, I might suggest just considering a 2-speed pump where at least the automation could select between the speeds ... just realize it would require 2 relays and with the spa blower and pool light, that would be all of them.

BTW, I did not even bother wiring my light to a relay. It is just as easy to throw the switch on the wall as it would be to walk over to the equipment and push the button.

 

[mhoy]

Re: Strongly considering a Hayward PL-Plus + 40k cell, Max F

The spa uses an air venturi that is noisy but drowned out by the pump. Is a blower quieter ?? I agree, it is just as easy to use light switch but might be nice to automate to some degree.

Mark

 

[jblizzle]

Re: Strongly considering a Hayward PL-Plus + 40k cell, Max F

Oh. I misunderstood. When you said spa pump I assumed a blower. I do not know if they are quieter.

 

[chiefwej]

Re: Strongly considering a Hayward PL-Plus + 40k cell, Max F

You have a spa, but you are eliminating the heater?

 

[mhoy]

Re: Strongly considering a Hayward PL-Plus + 40k cell, Max F

Well the plumbing is totally screwy.... The heater is also so old PG&E really suggested replacement. Right now the solar keeps the spa area a couple degrees warmer than the pool. I'll have to post a link to another thread with a picture of the pad.

Mark

 

[mhoy]

Re: Strongly considering a Hayward PL-Plus + 40k cell, Max F

Looking at the manual for the Max-Flo ... I do not see the ability for the speeds to be controlled by any of the automation systems. You may only be able to use the automation to turn it on and off like a regular pump, but I am not sure if that makes you lose the speed settings.

If the automation can not control the speeds, then that would prevent the automation from automatically switching to high speed for solar and then down to low speed when solar not needed.

Yeah my reading of the variable speed MaxFlo and SuperPump lead me to the same conclusion. A real pity as I don't need a 3HP pump in my setup and the newer lower HP ones seemed perfect but appear not able to be controllable from an automation system. I think I'll call Hayward later today to confirm, but this would lead to a EcoStar variable or as you mentioned a dual speed pump.

 

[jblizzle]

Re: Strongly considering a Hayward PL-Plus + 40k cell, Max F

If you power is relatively cheap, unless you get a large rebate on VS pumps, then it may take 5+ years to save enough electricity to justify the higher upfront cost of the Ecostar over a 2-speed pump. Although remember with a 2-speed, you would need to use 2 of the relays to control the speeds.

 

[mhoy]

Re: Strongly considering a Hayward PL-Plus + 40k cell, Max F

Power in CA with PG&E is expensive, even with solar panels. I'd get a $100 rebate on the pump which made the $700 Max Flo look very attractive, but not so much with the 3HP Ecostar or equiv Pentair 3HP VS line.

Totally agree with the power/cost rational, but I'm also going to take quietness into account. I'd actually forgo getting the max heat out of the solar panels to keep things quieter.

Almost worth reverse engineering the MaxFlo protocol and building a Raspberry Pi solution with WiFi and Web interface.

 

[mhoy]

Re: Strongly considering a Hayward PL-Plus + 40k cell, Max F

Chatted with Hayward/Goldline today (after a long hold time) and they suggest an Ecostar VS pump if I want controllability. Of course this then opens up a comparison with Pentair controller, IC40 and an Intelliflo pump. ARGH... time for more reading and questions.

 

[mhoy]

Re: Strongly considering a Hayward PL-Plus + 40k cell, Max F

Follow up. Went with all Pentair and an Aquabot 4WD.

1. Aquabot Rapids 4WD pool cleaner - get to remove 3/4 HP boost pump
2. Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump - replace single 1 HP main pool pump
3. Pentair EasyTouch 8, automate - fix unused solar controller
4. Pentair IC40 SWG - ease pool maintenance

More questions will be forthcoming in my main thread wrt how to plumb all this stuff up.
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