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Thread: Reality Check on new pump and filter

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    Reality Check on new pump and filter

    I am replacing some of the equipment in my pool. It is a small pool, about 12000g, with a small attached spa that overflows into the pool. All the pools in my neighborhood were overbuilt - this one had a 2HP Pentair Challenger pump with pentair nautilus 48FNS filter. I know that the larger-than-necessary pump was because of the spa, but the water came out too hard. So I am looking at downsizing.

    The pool has 2 skimmers and a main drain, all separately valved with 1.5" pipes. The incoming spa pipe is 2". The outlets to the pool include one 2" pipe to the pool outlets (5), one 2" pipe to the spa, and one 1.5" pipe to a fountain in the spa (normally on).

    I'd like to replace the existing pump/filter with:
    1 HP Superflo pump
    Pentair Sand Dollar SD80 with Clearpro

    Its seems that there is plenty of filter for the 1 HP filter and the pump will provide plenty of circulation, but I'm a little concerned whether the 1 HP will be enough to circulate water through both the pool jets and the spa fountain. The fountain really needs to run to provide some circulation to the water in the spa.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check on new pump and filter

    Why do you want to replace the filter? The is a nice good size for your pool, in fact oversized to provide better flow for the spa.

    Is there something wrong with the pump? You could just downsize the impeller to reduce power consumption and lower the flow rate. Or better yet, replace the motor with a smaller 2-speed motor.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check on new pump and filter

    jbliz beat me...we are going to say about the same thing...

    Your current 48 sq. ft. DE filter is a nice size for you pool. We would recommend a minimum 34 sq. ft. DE filter which yours sure meets. Why do you want to replace it?

    If you do want a new smaller pump, as you know the force of your jets will go down considerably. The easiest thing to do might be to replace your current pump motor with a 2-speed. Let us know if you want us to help you select it.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Reality Check on new pump and filter

    Ditto on that. I have pretty much the same setup as you but 16K gallons. IMHO the Challenger B298x (I puth the B2984 in mine) is the best bang for the buck with the extremely efficient low speed. Works like a champ with my 48fns pool spa combo.

    If you post up a little more info on the current motor specs (service factor and such - a picture would work as well) we can help with proper impeller / motor combination to take the bite out of the jets when you are in spa mode.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
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    Re: Reality Check on new pump and filter

    I should have mentioned that the pool is about 24 years old and the pump and filter are both original issue. They are both shot. Right now, money is a consideration, which is why I'm not considering a two speed pumps. I like the spa, but we've probably never used it more than 10 times in a year, so its not a major consideration. If it circulates hot water, I'm happy.

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    Re: Reality Check on new pump and filter

    As for the filter, I certainly liked the job it did, but I never really cared for cleaning the grids. I'm look for something cheap and easy to maintain. I know there isn't a consensus on the clearpro technology, but I'm willing to take a shot. The price is right.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check on new pump and filter

    When you say the pump is shot, what do you mean?

    When you say the filter is shot, what do you mean?

    If money is a consideration, I certainly wouldn't be spending it on a new filter if I didn't have too. How often are you having to clean it?

    I would spend the extra $100 on a 2-speed pump long before I replaced a well sized functioning filter.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Reality Check on new pump and filter

    The filter needs all new grids and an new manifold at a minimum. Also, its stainless steel and I hope to move to SWG sometime.

    The pump motor is running, but making a lot of noise. The pressure it produces has decreased considerably. I believe it ran dry after I emptied the pool to acid wash it.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check on new pump and filter

    Okay, now I understand your situation better...new filter and new pump desired. Might I suggest a SD70 (3.1 sq. ft.) which can be had for ~$350 which will save you at least $150 over the SD80 with clearpro and will be well sized for your pool (we would recommend a minimum of 2.2 sq. ft. sand filter for your 12000 gallon pool). That will leave you more money to better size your pump.

    For the pump, to get decent energy savings and still have enough oomph for you spa jets you may need to still consider a 2-speed pump. How many jets and what size and what size plumbing do you have?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check on new pump and filter

    New grids would be < $150 ... but see your concern about the Stainless.

    As far as sand filters, we would generally recommend at least a 20" for your pool size. The SD80 is 25" ... so you could get by with the SD60 for even cheaper.

    The noise is coming from the motor ... so if you replaced the motor and impeller, the noise should stop. And this would save enough $ to go to a 2-speed motor and running on low a majority of the time to save on power costs. This assumes that the wet end part of the pump is in decent shape and not leaking.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Administrator Leebo's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check on new pump and filter

    Where are you located?? Often the power rates quickly pay back the higher cost of an more efficient pump.

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    Re: Reality Check on new pump and filter

    First - thanks to everyone taking time to solve my problem - its very much appreciated!

    I'm in Dallas - 8.4 cents/kWH according to last bill.

    Spa circulation - 2" pipe leading to 6 jets, each with a 1" opening.
    Pool circulation - 2" pipe leading to 5 eyeballs, with openings between 1/4" to 1/2" (I think). Of course, the fittings are easily changed. Plus there is a 1.5" pipe which terminates in the spa with a 1" opening. Water from this fountain overflows from the spa to the Pool (about and 10" drop). This is my main concern, because it is the only circulation of water to the spa on a daily basis.

    On the filter, I've found the SD80 w/ Clearpro as low as $315 (plus shipping). The same store sells the SD 60 for about $80 less. The SD 70 is only about $20 less. I may go with the SD60.

    On the motor, I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain about the advantage of the 2-speed motor. A 2HP motor drives the spa jets a little too hard, but on circulation shoots the fountain up 12 - 18", which looks nice. If I go with a 1 HP motor, it may not be able to drive the fountain with the current eyeball fittings. If it does drive the fountain adequately, I don't need a 2HP motor for the spa - I know that's too high, and my guess is that current 2HP motors are more powerful than my 24 yo motor/pump. I don't think I've ever seen a 1/1.5 HP two speed motor.

    On the other hand, if it is too low, I'll need to go to a 1.5 HP motor, which is probably about right for the spa, too.

    If I could get it to work with a 1 HP motor, I think the payback (relative to the current 2HP motor) would be in less than two years. So if its not perfect for the spa, we can get a new one in a few years when times are better.

    I really have two questions about pumps: 1) how do you know if its the right size and 2) other than durability, what would the difference be between a superflo and a challenger? Obviously, the Challenger has been a workhorse, but will I notice any substantive differences?

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Reality Check on new pump and filter

    The advantage of the 2-speed is that you would run for filtration on low speed which will save a lot of $ on electricity (likely at least 50%). You would only run on high speed when you want the fountain on or the spa jets.

    There are 2-speed motors in all sizes 3/4HP up to 2+HP.

    One thing that has not been brought up is that you could reduce the power of the spa jets by changing them to a larger diameter orifice.

    Regarding Clear Pro ... I see that the only difference between the regular Sand Dollar SD80 (145333) is different from the Clear Pro SD80 (145300) is an added porous tube that is meant to grab smaller particles. But, does it get clogged? Seems like you could get the same effect with a little DE.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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