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Thread: Green Treat & No Mor Problems ????

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    cincysaab95's Avatar
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    Green Treat & No Mor Problems ????

    Please keep in mind I am a newbie as far as BBB and this new to me way of treating the pool.

    Going back to the very beginning because it’s a very good place to start!

    Upon purchasing this home 5 years ago, we had the pool thoroughly inspected by a reputable regional pool company. Everything checked out fine.

    Used a local pool company to close the pool using what the previous owner's used which was a typical IG solid pool with water bags, sump pump, etc. Used the same pool company to open it the following spring and everything was beautiful!

    Because of little kidlings and dogs, we didn't feel comfortable with the solid cover, water bag scenario so replaced that cover with a Meyco safety cover. Like it a lot with the exception of the mesh allows sunlight and silt in the pool during the winter and apparently, if it’s not opened early enough (before temps and sun increase) we end up with a Shrek pool.

    We didn't have a lot of trouble keeping the ps values where recommended UNTIL we replaced the vinyl cover a couple seasons ago. We've NEVER since replacing the vinyl liner been able to have a stable pool and it has taken a long time (weeks) to clear up the algae upon opening.

    Before I found this amazing site, when opening the pool this year on 05.26.08 it was as green and swampy as can be. My 5 y/o dn who didn't remember it last year said, "it looks like Shrek's bathtub".

    --->first time posting a pic to any forum, hope it works
    [img][/img]

    Please note: zero hour, first day, nothing with regard to the pool or area looks the way it will when it is truly able to be used!

    Went to the local pool supplier (why doesn't it end as liar instead?) and purchased their recommended Green Treat. Used it as they instructed: use 1 container (2#) of GT, wait 1 hr, shock with 4 gal of pool shock, run filter, brush, vacuum, backwash, (lather, rinse and repeat). If nothing changes within 48 hours, come back we'll sell you more stuff (as I've learned on your site). Since then, I've purchased No Mor Problems (ps recommendation-which I have NOT used) because even though the pool is no longer green it is VERY cloudy. I haven't been able to keep the chlorine where it needs to be long enough for it to become clear. My values currently are:

    AquaChek 4 test strips (I know, going to get drop kit ASAP):
    pH 7.2
    FC 3 (going to add 4 more gal now)
    TA 120
    CY bright yellow (which isn't even an option - will retest in a few hours)

    hth 6 way strips:
    TH 200
    FC 0
    pH 7.2
    TA 120
    CY 0

    Did I royally mess things up by using Green Treat? Other than adding 4 more gal of chlorine, what should I do?

    Also, it appears my automatic chlorinator (3" tabs) isn't working as shouldn't that show me some kind of reading? We did put 4 gals of liq chlorine in this morning (approx 6 hours ago).

    It appears based on the posts I've read that I need to add CYA however; I'm a little leery as I am using the tabs until I can spring for the Liquinator and they have CYA in them.

    Any advice you can provide would be extremely helpful!

    Thanks a million!

    P.S.-I am not adverse to going to the local ps to get H20 tested but please let me know when reading I should request.

    P.P.S.-Wasn't certain whether this should be posted under algae or chems 101.
    ____________________________________________________________ __________________
    IG VL, 18'x36'x5', Hayward S220T sand filter, Hayward gas heater, MagneTek 1HP pump, Hayward automatic chlorinator, solar cover, Kreepy Krauly. Pool was hole in the ground that I put my money into for the past 5 years but thanks to TFP that changed and I'm enjoying being a pool owner.

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Cincy,

    Start reading the stickies.

    ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry
    BBB for Beginners
    Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparking Oasis

    It looks to me like your water is too low to be 1/2 way up into the skimmer for proper circulation...is that the case? If so, you need to correct that before putting any other chemistry in your pool.

    As others will soon tell you.....get a good test kit and stay out of the pool store.. This forum will help you get your water perfect.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    cincysaab95's Avatar
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    Thanks, Dave!

    Start reading the stickies.

    I have and will continue. Really couldn't answer all of my problems there. Although, as a follow up, we are brushing, vacuuming, backwashing (was doing it regularly and now doing it to waste only (thank you TFP!)), at least once daily, if not twice. No ladders or any obstructions are in the pool yet.

    ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry
    BBB for Beginners
    Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparking Oasis

    It looks to me like your water is too low to be 1/2 way up into the skimmer for proper circulation...is that the case? If so, you need to correct that before putting any other chemistry in your pool.

    Great observation! That was the case when we opened it. You probably can't tell in the photo but near the lower right corner above the little patch of grass there's a greyish, curvy line - that is the hose filling up the pool.

    As others will soon tell you.....get a good test kit and stay out of the pool store.. This forum will help you get your water perfect.

    I will order the test kit within the next 48 hours!
    ____________________________________________________________ __________________
    IG VL, 18'x36'x5', Hayward S220T sand filter, Hayward gas heater, MagneTek 1HP pump, Hayward automatic chlorinator, solar cover, Kreepy Krauly. Pool was hole in the ground that I put my money into for the past 5 years but thanks to TFP that changed and I'm enjoying being a pool owner.

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    cinsysaab95,

    It appears based on the posts I've read that I need to add CYA however;
    Why do you think that you need to add CYA? I don't see in your post where you have tested for CYA?

    You do have something labeled "CY 0", but I assume that you mean FC (free chlorine) here and not CYA? It is hard to imagine that your CYA is 0 if you have been using tabs, but very easy to imagine a FC of 0 with the color of your pool.

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

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    cincysaab95's Avatar
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    Titanium,

    Thanks for your quick reply!

    Why do you think that you need to add CYA? I don't see in your post where you have tested for CYA?

    You do have something labeled "CY 0", but I assume that you mean FC (free chlorine) here and not CYA? It is hard to imagine that your CYA is 0 if you have been using tabs, but very easy to imagine a FC of 0 with the color of your pool.


    The photo was from 05.26.08 - nearly two weeks ago. It is now very cloudy - not green at all. Will post an updated photo after I run my 1600 tests and post the results.

    I believe the CY 0 IS the CYA using the hth test strips. I just rechecked it again and it does say (on the packaging) Cyanuric Acid Stabilizer=CYA. My apologizes for not fully typing out CYA=0. FC was 0 now it is back up again after 4 gallons of bleach.

    New results (as of 1430 EST):

    TH: 0
    FC: 10
    pH: 7.2
    TA: 120
    CYA: now it appears to be 'moving' as it is darker than 0 and lighter than 30-50 but darker than earlier test

    Will retest again around 1600, report AND post an updated pic.

    Thanks again.
    ____________________________________________________________ __________________
    IG VL, 18'x36'x5', Hayward S220T sand filter, Hayward gas heater, MagneTek 1HP pump, Hayward automatic chlorinator, solar cover, Kreepy Krauly. Pool was hole in the ground that I put my money into for the past 5 years but thanks to TFP that changed and I'm enjoying being a pool owner.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    I recall reading on here that a CYA test might not be accurate with a dirty pool? Maybe that's TA... ahh I can't remember.

    I would suggest taking a sample to the pool store and have them run a test for everything. Don't buy anything, just test the water.

    You need to know for sure what your CYA level is because you likely don't have your CL high enough to do the complete job.

    Hang in there!!!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    CYA tests on test strips are usually accurate even when the water is murky. But test strips are never very precise. That means that we know the CYA is fairly low (accurate) but not what it's actual number really is (not precise). It is the black dot disappearing test that doesn't work well when the water is murky.

    Green Treat can create a tremendous chlorine demand. You need to keep adding chlorine until you can hold a FC level. Test and add chlorine back up to shock level as frequently as you can manage, up to once per hour. Because of the low CYA level it might be better to do that in the evening. Otherwise you will lose a lot of chlorine to sunlight.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    cincysaab95's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of your continued help, folks. I really appreciate it!

    Latest photo
    [img][/img]
    Much better than before.

    1630 readings:
    TH 100
    FC 0 (added another 4 gal of liq shock)
    pH 7.2
    TA 120
    CYA still looks between 0-30

    Pool stores are closed in the area for the day. Will continue to watch the FC and will add additional chlorine as needed until 10am tomorrow morning when I can get to the pool store for more accurate tests (which I will post as soon as I have an opportunity) and I will buy nothing while there!

    I did purchase the TF Test Kit online a short while ago. I can't wait to receive it.
    ____________________________________________________________ __________________
    IG VL, 18'x36'x5', Hayward S220T sand filter, Hayward gas heater, MagneTek 1HP pump, Hayward automatic chlorinator, solar cover, Kreepy Krauly. Pool was hole in the ground that I put my money into for the past 5 years but thanks to TFP that changed and I'm enjoying being a pool owner.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    You did all that in a day (from first pic to last)? That's quite a change!

    Keep your chlorine at shock levels for a few days, then let it drop down to usable levels. You need to make sure the algae is gone and the dead material is all filtered out.

    Your pool looks great already though.

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    cincysaab95's Avatar
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    You did all that in a day (from first pic to last)? That's quite a change!
    Thanks Matt but no. The green pic is from 13 days ago and the cloudy pic is from today.

    I'll stick with the plan: chlorinate, test, vacuum, backwash, test, chlorinate, etc., until chlorine stays at the same level or drops no more than 1ppm overnight.

    Thanks again.
    ____________________________________________________________ __________________
    IG VL, 18'x36'x5', Hayward S220T sand filter, Hayward gas heater, MagneTek 1HP pump, Hayward automatic chlorinator, solar cover, Kreepy Krauly. Pool was hole in the ground that I put my money into for the past 5 years but thanks to TFP that changed and I'm enjoying being a pool owner.

  11. Back To Top    #11
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cincysaab95
    until chlorine stays at the same level or drops no more than 1ppm overnight
    Exactly right.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Well, it obviously worked! It's pretty much what I did too. Based on the dates though it looked like you did it in a day, which I never would have guessed possible.

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    cincysaab95's Avatar
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    1800 update

    Hi Folks,

    Been a little busy however, I have been on top of the pool situation. Checking at least the FC level as much as I can which is generally about every 4 hours when I'm not asleep. The cloudiness is starting to subside a bit as I can finally see the bottom of the shallow end (yay). My CYA level is still low - I think it is 0 however, the pool supply store is saying it is 3. Either way, it needs to be increased however, the ps guy said I should wait to add CYA as it is still cloudy and I'm continuing to brush, vacuum, chlorinate, etc., and if I added CYA I couldn't backwash for at least 72 hours. Do you think that is correct that I should wait until the cloudiness has gone away before adding CYA?

    Also, here are the levels they tested:

    FC - .4
    pH - 6.9
    Alk - 111
    TH - 102 (also, I asked them to check for CH and he said TH and CH are the same - interesting as this gentleman was NOT a hs or college student on break). The little education I've gotten from this site tells me TH and CH are not the same!

    Regardless, my biggest issue is the Chlorine not holding. Do I just continue to add liquid chlorine as needed which is about every 4 hours? And ultimately, it will start holding or should I add CYA?

    Thanks!

    Also, does anyone have a Hayward 6-position PermaGlass XL Vari-Flo valve? As I wrote in a different post in the equipment section, my label has worn off and I can't read anything. It appears in order to get a new label, you have to buy a new valve which sounds ridiculous to me. I know where filter and backwash are located but I can't remember anything else. If anyone out there could let me know what the positions (i. e. - 1200= filter, 1400=??, 1600=backwash, etc) are, I'd really appreciate it. I have looked in the owner's manual as well as online at several sites to no avail.
    ____________________________________________________________ __________________
    IG VL, 18'x36'x5', Hayward S220T sand filter, Hayward gas heater, MagneTek 1HP pump, Hayward automatic chlorinator, solar cover, Kreepy Krauly. Pool was hole in the ground that I put my money into for the past 5 years but thanks to TFP that changed and I'm enjoying being a pool owner.

  14. Back To Top    #14
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    I don't think you need to worry about the hardness, tho they are not the same, i learned this week....you have a vinyl liner so there ya go.

    CYA - he's right, if you back wash you will lose some of it.

    If your FC is not holding during the day, that's cause you have no CYA.

    Is your FC holding at night? That will tell you if you still have an algea issue.

    Your PH is a little low, did I miss something or is that on purpose?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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