Hello. We just got a new pool from Walmart- 18'x48" Intex above ground. We filled it with water from our drilled well, which contains sulfur and iron, calcium, and magnesium. My wife took a test sample to a pool store and had it tested and they gave her a bunch of chemicals. We first added a Metal Out substance. The next day, we added stabilizer, then shock. When I went out to add the algicide, I noticed the water was brown. I think the shock turned it brown. She took another test sample to the pool store, and they gave her a clarifier. We've been adding it as directed for probably 4 days, and it hasn't seemed to clear things up much at all. I've heard good things about Baquacil. I ordered some and it should be here in the next few days. My question is, is it ok to add Baquacil after I've already shocked it with chlorine, or is there something else I need to do first?
Brown water
- Thread starter jephph
- Start date
Welcome to TFP!
Avoid using baquacil sanitizer. It is incompatible with chlorine and will create a mess if added to a pool with chlorine. Baquacil makes several other chemicals, besides the sanitizer, some of which are alright to use and some of which aren't.
You should post a full set of water test results and describe the water in more detail, is it translucent brown, clear brown, cloudy brow, murky brown, etc? Also, how has your filter pressure been behaving?
By the by, the pool store has been selling you some chemicals that might be useful and some that have no chance of helping. You might want to reconsider listening to their advice.
Avoid using baquacil sanitizer. It is incompatible with chlorine and will create a mess if added to a pool with chlorine. Baquacil makes several other chemicals, besides the sanitizer, some of which are alright to use and some of which aren't.
You should post a full set of water test results and describe the water in more detail, is it translucent brown, clear brown, cloudy brow, murky brown, etc? Also, how has your filter pressure been behaving?
By the by, the pool store has been selling you some chemicals that might be useful and some that have no chance of helping. You might want to reconsider listening to their advice.
Welcome to TFP! 
First off,
Given that you have filled from a well that you know contains metals in the water, the brown water is likely the result of metals in the water. When chlorine is added, it can result in metals precipitating thereby turning the water brown and possibly form stains on the surface. To guard against this, you need to (1) Keep pH between 7.2 and 7.4, and (2) Add periodic doses of a sequestrant. The sequestrant will not remove metals from the water. It binds to the metals and prevents them from depositing as stains. Sequestrants slowly break down in the pool, so you need to add more regularly to maintain the correct level. Sequestrants based on HEDP, phosphonic acid, or phosphonic acid derivatives are the most effective. ProTeam's Metal Magic and Jack's Magic The Pink Stuff (regular), The Blue Stuff (fresh plaster), and The Purple Stuff (salt) are some of the top sequestrants. You can also find many other brands with similar active ingredients, some of which are noticeably less expensive.
First off,
Given that you have filled from a well that you know contains metals in the water, the brown water is likely the result of metals in the water. When chlorine is added, it can result in metals precipitating thereby turning the water brown and possibly form stains on the surface. To guard against this, you need to (1) Keep pH between 7.2 and 7.4, and (2) Add periodic doses of a sequestrant. The sequestrant will not remove metals from the water. It binds to the metals and prevents them from depositing as stains. Sequestrants slowly break down in the pool, so you need to add more regularly to maintain the correct level. Sequestrants based on HEDP, phosphonic acid, or phosphonic acid derivatives are the most effective. ProTeam's Metal Magic and Jack's Magic The Pink Stuff (regular), The Blue Stuff (fresh plaster), and The Purple Stuff (salt) are some of the top sequestrants. You can also find many other brands with similar active ingredients, some of which are noticeably less expensive.
What kind of algaecide did you use (looking for the active ingredient, not brand name)? if it is copper-based, this will add more metal to the water and exacerbate your problem.jephph said:
There is not a chemical product that I am aware of that will remove metals from the water.jephph said:
Where did you hear this from? Reason I ask is that there is a forum board dedicated to Bacquacil - Use and Conversion where many members are either actively converting from Bacquacil to BBB or have expressed interest in doing so. I would return your order upon receipt.jephph said:
JasonLion said:
Here are the test results. The first set is before we added any chemicals, the second is after the chemicals and after the water turned brown:
Temp 78,76
Sat Index .2,.4
TDS 500,400
CYA 0,42
Tot. Chlorine 0,0
Free Chlorine 0,0
pH 7.3,7.6
Total Alkalinity 168,173
Adj Tot Alk 168,160
Tot. Hardness 327,293
Copper 0,Not Tested
Iron 0,Not Tested
Everything Else: No, or None
I should mention that we have a potassium permanganate system for our water to get rid of the iron. I haven't added more in a while, so I'm not sure if any iron made it out to the pool or not. The first test showed 0, and they didn't test for it the second time, so it seems clean, but something's gotta be making the pool look brown. It's a clear brown by the way. As far as the filter pressure.. I haven't noticed much of a change. It's just the cheap Krystal Klear pump and filter that came with the pool, so there's no gauge or anything, but we have been cleaning the filter out at least once a day. And is has been pretty dirty each time(orange, reddish in color).
I figured they were selling us things we didn't need. But I really have no idea what I do need, so I just went with it.JasonLion said:
The algicide is copper based, but was added after the water had already turned brown.BoDarville said:
The product we used was called "METAL free", which is supposed to "...prevent staining and discoloration from trace metals such as iron and copper." It was the first thing we added (half a bottle), and then we were told to add the rest of the bottle after we called and told them that the water had turned brown.BoDarville said:
The first thing that came up after I googled "brown water in pool after shocking" was this forum thread: http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index ... wtopic=151 about halfway down, a user named Guest_James_* posts a message. It sounded exactly like what I had experienced (brown water right after adding chlorine), so I looked into it. I found it on Amazon- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004WF ... UTF8&psc=1 , and the 1 review also sounded exactly like my problem (well water, turned brown after shocking) and it seemed to work well for him.BoDarville said:
These results look like they came from test strips. I would recommend one of the Recommended Test Kits, but will not pontificate further on this aside from making this recommendation. I will address your test results as posted.jephph said:
- 1. You can ignore TDS. It is a completely irrelevant parameter.
2. You need to get some chlorine in the water. Otherwise you will be battling algae and brown water. Aim for 4-5 ppm FC, given your CYA of ~42. Monitor FC daily and add chlorine as needed to keep it within this range.
3. Add sequestrant to keep the metals in suspension which will help clear the water. Sequestrant breaks down over time, so you will need to replenish as needed.
4. Based on your second test results, bring pH down between 7.2 and 7.4 using Muriatic Acid (MA). This will also lower TA which can also stand some lowering. Continue to monitor daily and adjust pH as needed to stay within this range.
5. Total hardness (TH) is the sum of calcium hardness and magnesium hardness. We do not normally test TH; We focus on calcium hardness (CH). As an approximation you can multiply TH by two thirds to get a rough estimate of CH. Using this formula on your second test results, your CH **estimate** is ~200 ppm.
6. I'm skeptical of the copper and iron results. If you water is a transparent (not murky) brown, that is a classic example of metals in the water and iron is common in well water, plus you had added a copper-based algaecide. Therefore, we know there is iron (from your initial post) and copper (from the algaecide) in the water. Sequestrant and monitoring pH will deal with both.
One other thing I will mention: Should the metals ever precipitate out again and turn the water a transparent brown and assuming you can deal with that for a short while, temporarily hold off on adding additional sequestrant and try the "paper towel" method which involves placing paper towels in the skimmers. The paper towels may remove some of the precipitated metal particles. No guarantee this will work, but it is a low cost - low impact alternative worth trying, so I will put it on the table. Some members have had some success with this (see this post: a-tale-of-two-filters-and-ugly-rusty-water-t46130.html) - scroll towards the bottom to see a picture of the iron filtered out by the paper towels. If you try this method, check on the paper towels every couple of hours or so while the filter is running. Replace towels as needed.
Even if the paper towel method removes some of the metals, you may still need to continue using a sequestrant on an ongoing basis. However, you may be able to use less of it if the paper towel method was at least somewhat successful.
Addressing the subject of Bacquacil...many who have tried Bacquacil sanitizer initially had good results. Eventually, however, they tend to run into problems with a green swamp (or worse). Their pool has been clear & clean for some time and then one day they wake up and it's either green, cloudy, or both. Continued use of Bacquacil will not clear this up and they get frustrated. Assuming you want to avoid that. I would stick with chlorine (plain unscented liquid bleach w/o thickeners) as the sanitizer.
All righty. Thank you. In regards to the chlorine... I don't know why the second test indicated no tot chlorine or free chlorine, because we used shock on it, which included chlorine. I don't know what CYA is.
Also, seeing as the chlorine is what turned the water brown in the first place, won't the chlorine and sequestrant counteract each other?
Also, seeing as the chlorine is what turned the water brown in the first place, won't the chlorine and sequestrant counteract each other?
Cyanuric acid (CYA), often called stabilizer or sometimes conditioner, protects FC from sunlight. The side-effect of doing this is that it also lowers the effective strength of the FC. The higher the CYA level, the more FC you need to get the same sanitizing effect. It is important to know your CYA level so you can figure out what FC level to aim for. I recommend checking this out: Chlorine CYA Chartjephph said:
Any advice on the chlorine and sequestrant counteracting? I put more chlorine in it yesterday, and it made it more brown again. I feel like I'm going to end up in a cycle of sequestering and chlorinating and the pool turning from clear light brown to clear dark brown over and over.
Edit: By the way, the Baquacil is labeled as "Metal Control" and "Deactivates iron, copper, and other trace metals. I don't know if that's the same as a sanitizer or not... The active ingredient is Tetrasodium Ethylene-Diaminetetraacetate Hydrate. Should I still not use it?
Edit: By the way, the Baquacil is labeled as "Metal Control" and "Deactivates iron, copper, and other trace metals. I don't know if that's the same as a sanitizer or not... The active ingredient is Tetrasodium Ethylene-Diaminetetraacetate Hydrate. Should I still not use it?
What is your ph? If it is still at 7.6 or above, I would lower it down to 7.2 and see if this helps.
The recommended sequestrates are in the article:http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/metal stains The chemical you listed are not like the recommended ones
The recommended sequestrates are in the article:http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/metal stains The chemical you listed are not like the recommended ones
Yeah, don't use it, get one of the recommended sequestrants. The http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/metal stains only mentions a few, but it does tell you what chemicals to look out for that are most effective, yours isn't on the list. I used hth Metal Control from Walmart which says the active ingredient is dimethylphosphonic acid Therefore, it's a derivative of phosphonic acid. It worked well and doesn't turn back to orange/brown everytime I add bleach.
Ok, so I put some pH Down (active ingredient- sodium bisulfate- couldn't find any muriatic acid) in the pool last night, along with a bottle of hth Metal Control (with diphosphonic acid). I woke up this morning, checked the pool, and it is now brown and cloudy. I decided to try out the paper towel method, and threw a paper towel over the strainer this morning. I got home from work, and the paper towel was completely covered in reddish brown, and so was the filter. I removed the paper towel, and put a new filter in. I tested the water (with a test strip- couldn't find any of the test kits recommended) and here are my results:
pH- about 8.2
ppm Free Chlorine- close to 0
ppm Total alkalinity- about 240
ppm stabilizer- about 80
So... I'm guessing I need to add more chlorine, and more pH Down. As I said, the water is still very brown. So.. more metal control too?
pH- about 8.2
ppm Free Chlorine- close to 0
ppm Total alkalinity- about 240
ppm stabilizer- about 80
So... I'm guessing I need to add more chlorine, and more pH Down. As I said, the water is still very brown. So.. more metal control too?
The recommended test kits can really only be bought online. Sometimes they can be found locally, but most of the time the pool store will sell you the DPD test kit, which is not the same thing.
I added pillow stuffing to the skimmer, changed it frequently as well as pump filter. Pool was clear in 3 days.