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Thread: Some Questions before New Build in New England

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    Some Questions before New Build in New England

    I'm about to start my own build. The current plan is an 18 x 40 Lazy L steel pool. I've checked out a few sources and I'm probably going with a retailer out of CT. I was pretty shocked by what I read when I checked out some of the DIY kit retailers on the Better Business Bureau. I imagine some of it comes from confusion on the part of the buyer over what you are actually getting, but some of the reports were pretty dismal.

    Some of the things I'm wondering about are pump size, number of skimmers, chlorine feeder vs. chlorine generator, and filter style.

    The pool will be about 22,000 gallons. Is a 1 hp. Hayward super pump big enough? That's what comes in the kit. The standard filter is a sand style. With glass media, do these filters actually filter to 5 microns or is that just marketing? The kit comes with one skimmer. Will that handle the pool or should it have 2? Also, regarding feeders vs. generators, is a properly maintained feeder set up just as good or is there a better way? It's difficult to separate the truth from the marketing hype when all the info comes from manufacturers and retailers.

    I've only begun the permit process and started clearing some trees. On the plus side, I had to get a Title V inspection for the permit which is a septic system inspection. I have the original system at my house which is 45 years old. It has 2 leaching chambers, one of which was full. The other was about 1 1/2 ft. from full. I passed the inspection, but would probably be in trouble in 5 years or so. I was able to get some oxygen into the full chamber and although I'm not finished with the process I already recovered about 80% of its capacity. I will likely get it totally functioning again. That should save me around $15,000 or $20,000. So basically, I'll probably come out ahead financially by installing a pool!
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    If you don't have any special water features that require a lot of flow or pressure, that pump will be fine.
    The size of the filter is important. With that size pool you'll want a 4 sqft sand filter. Imo the filtering specs for glass is mostly marketing hype.
    I'd also want 2 skimmers one that size pool. Especially with a lazy 'L'.
    A tablet feeder constantly adds cya, so if the choice is between that and a swg, definitely go with the swg.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    Thanks for the reply. I was thinking I needed 2 skimmers. Regarding the swg, I've read that a properly maintained pool using just chlorine is not much different in feel from one using an swg. With a steel liner pool I'm not convinced that keeping the water full of salt is the best idea. I have a friend with a liner pool that uses a feeder and another with a gunite pool that uses an swg. Neither smells of chlorine and they're both crystal clear. If the swg is truly the way to go I'll use one but if I can get the same results without spending the extra money I'm fine with that.
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    For about $250 you can get a stunner pump to inject chlorine...no need to worry about cells and very low cost.
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    Just looked at these. A peristaltic pump is a great way to go. There are very few parts to wear out, and the chemicals only pass through the hose so seals and pump cylinders aren't involved. Plus, I like to use what works the best rather than what someone happens to sell. Also, using bottled bleach beats going to the pool store and paying retail.

    I'll try to get a handle on what my liquid bleach needs will be and choose a pump from there. Is there is a pump size that people have figured out already for a 22,000 gallon pool? Of course, I guess I could just go with manual dosing until I determine what volume I would need.
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    Dosing manually is a very good way to learn the personality of your pool. However, it's pretty easy to figure out how much bleach you're probably going to use each day and therefore what size injection pump you need.
    Most pools use between 2 & 3 ppm FC per day so you can use the pool calculator to figure out how much bleach that is and as long as you size the injection pump larger than that you'll be fine.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    According to the guidelines from Clorox, 1 quart of Clorox per 4,000 gallons of water will give you 3 ppm FC so for a 22,000 gallon pool I'd need 5 1/2 quarts of bleach per day maximum. If I run my pump for 8 hours per day, I will need to have a pump that can inject that much in 8 hours or less. If that's the case then I would need a pump that can dispense 5 GPD or more assuming I can dose it using straight chlorine. I'm assuming that the chlorine is added undiluted to the discharge from the filter.
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    Mmmmm, 5 1/2 quarts seems a bit high. My pool is a bit smaller...I am using less than 50 oz a day of 5.25% bleach. Most Clorox is 8% or so now...

    Try your numbers on the pool calculator...

    My pump will but in 10 gallons per day at 24 hours....so if your math is right, you need the next size up, but I am not so sure your math is right.
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    The calculator predicts about 4 1/2 quarts per day. I entered 3 for the FC and that's what it indicated so if I used it correctly the next size pump will work. Thanks for the reply!
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    With the fixed rate 10 GPD pump (what I and many others have) you will need to run the stenner for 2.6 hours per day.

    Also what % bleach did you use ?
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    I assumed 6%, which I understand is what Clorox aims for as a minimum. Is that typical? Either way, it sounds like the 10 GPD pump will be fine for me.
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    Quote Originally Posted by diyindux
    I assumed 6%, which I understand is what Clorox aims for as a minimum. Is that typical? Either way, it sounds like the 10 GPD pump will be fine for me.
    Ideally you might shopr around for bleach prices.....that could vary significantly. You might also look for stronger bleach, or bleach sold in refillable containers. Basically find what your cheapest source is, and then use that % in the calculation.
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    The 10 gpd pump on it's own timer would be a good choice for you. You can adjust the injection time to account for the strength of the bleach you use. So you can shop for the best price.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    I'll check around for the best source for the chlorine but based on what I've found so far the 6% number is about the lowest concentration so I can use the 10 GPD like everyone else. If I find a good price on chlorine with a higher concentration I can just change the Stenner pump settings.

    Looks like I should get the pool with an additional skimmer, I'll upgrade to a 20/27 liner, get a sand filter with a minimum area of 4 sq. ft., take the standard pump and tell them I don't need any type of chlorinator. One last question, the package includes a Hayward DV5000 automatic vac but you can upgrade to the Shark XL Robotic. Is it worth it to upgrade?
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    More questions - assuming I use the maximum amount of chlorine, I'm looking at 4 1/2 quarts per day. That comes out to be around $475 per season for chlorine. If I use an SWG, once I add the initial salt I just have to spend money on the additional salt to account for water lost to backflushing and any dilution from rain plus the cost of a new cell every 3 to 5 years. A Stenner pump is around $250 plus the timer and the SWG will be $1,000. It looks like the SWG approach will be cheaper overall. Is that the case?
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    There have been comparisons done and when all is said and done, a swg and bleach work out to be about the same expense. You have to add acid additions to lower the rising pH common to swg use.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    Ok, more questions. The plan has evolved since I started this thread. I almost wish the pool kits came in rectangles only so I could settle on the shape easier.

    I've decided to go with a Full-L 18 x 38 x 28. This will give us the dive pool and the shallower play pool all in one and it fits on our property nicely. I plan to use the following:
    -42 inch walls. I was thinking of going 48 but my wife is 5'2" and says it will be too deep for her to enjoy playing with the kids in the shallow end.
    -Upgrade the liner to 27 mil.
    -8ft. Roman step (the sit-and-step style)
    -Pentair Intelliflo variable speed pump
    -6ft. Frontier II diving board
    -Hayward S310T2 filter
    -Pentair Intellichlor SWG
    -Hayward 250k H Series Heater
    -Hayward Tigershark Robotic vac

    Does this sound like a decent package? The pool will have a surface area of 800 sf and a volume of 25,500 gallons. Will a 250k heater be big enough or should I go for the 300k? I live in New England. The sizing charts say the 250 is big enough but I want to make sure it is accurate. Also, I decided to get the Tigershark because it was relatively cheap with the pool kit. The internal filter in the cleaner sounds nice since you just hose it off. I like the idea of not adding dirt to the sand filter with the vac.
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    The first thing I would do is find a pool with 48" walls (42" of water) and take the DW there and let her get in. Then I'd find one with 42" walls (36" of water) and let her get in it. I really think you'll want the 48" walls.

    You'll wish you'd have gone with a 400k Btu heater if you plan on heating the pool per use. If you're planning on keeping it heated then a 300k will be big enough.

    I see that you're mixing Pentair and Hayward equipment, and I have no problem with either. I don't know about Hayward but if you buy 3 major pieces of equipment, Pentair extends the warranty on all of it to 3 years. Might be something worth checking into. Also automation between the same mfg equipment is usually easier.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Some Questions before New Build in New England

    We have friends with 42 inch pools and she likes them so I think that one is settled. Regarding the heater, sounds like I need the 300K minimum. And thanks for the tip regarding the extended warranty if you buy 3 items. If I use my AMEX Platinum card to buy them, they will extend the warranty for another year so I'll have 4 years on the pump, filter and SWG. That will great. Too bad I can't get that on the heater!

    Now that I'm looking at the Pentair sand filters, I have another question. Does anyone have any experience with the Clear Technology filters? Also, their sizing jumps from 3.1 sf to 4.9 sf, and the price goes way up at the same time. With a 25,500 gallon pool, will the 3.1 sf filter work? Their charts say yes (28,800 gallons in 8 hours at 60 gpm) but will it work at a more reasonable flow rate? I will be using the Intelliflo variable speed pump.
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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