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Thread: Sunman's new thread

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    SunMan's Avatar
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    Sunman's new thread

    Do not hi-jack an existing thread. If you have a question, please start your own thread.

    Loved your analysis. I am at the end of that cycle myself and have resigned to draining and refilling. My question in the interim is about high FC needed with CYA levels near 200. The target of 12 is much higher than the "safe" , that the bags of shock say to stay out of the pool if above 4. What is the effect of such high chlorine on swimmers?
    FC=7.5, CC=.5, CYA >160, PH 7.6 and CH 370.


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Well... besides just adding chlorine, you're also adding stabilizer, which means the FC level needs to be raised a little more to cover that, which adds more stabilizer, which means the FC level needs to be raised a little more to cover that, which adds more stabilizer, which means the FC level needs to be raised a little more to cover that, which adds more stabilizer, and so on until suddenly you have "chlorine lock" and "high TDS" and the pool store guy, having emptied your wallet, tells you you need to drain.

    Oh... and you're also lowering pH pretty substantially with every puck you feed the pool. Check out Effects of Adding Chemicals in http://www.poolcalculator.com/ Every pound (2 pucks) will lower pH in your 33000 gallon pool by .19. Which is fine if you have really hard water, but if not, don't forget to add the cost of the soda ash and baking soda you need.

    Here's a little comparison I wrote a few weeks ago
    We'll take a 16000 gallon pool, because that's what I have. On a fresh fill, prominent national pool chain recommends 2.5 pounds pf stabilizer per 10,000 gallons, which works out nicely to 4 pounds which brings CYA to 30.

    With an average loss of 2 PPM/Day or 14 ppm/week, I'll have added 8.6 PPM/CYA if I used trichlor pucks perfectly. And they recommend a weekly "shock" of dichlor between 5 and 10 FC.... 2-3 oz per 10,000 gallons. Split the difference; I'll add 4 oz. CYA went up another .9.

    So..by the end of week one, I have added 9.5 more CYA. It is now 39.5. Mimimum FC for that is 3, so I'm probably okay.

    Week two, up to 49 CYA.
    Week three, 58.5. Minimum FC should be 5, but they recommend 3 as ideal, so the pool looks a bit hazy. So I'll toss in a little extra dichlor "shock" to jack FC up to 10. Which adds another 6.4 CYA. Keeping count? We're up to 64.9 now.

    That caught the algae just in time.. we had two weeks of good luck. A steady diet of pucks and 4 oz. "shock" each week only added another 19, up to 73.9 now.

    Week 6 it started looking funky, so we "shocked"it once again. CYA is up to 99.3. But minimum FC to keep algae at bay is 8, and we're still holding things to 3, because prominent national chain's preprinted sheet shows that as ideal. So algae got a toehold and the pool has a bit of a tint. So we throw two whole bags of dichlor in which jacks it another 7.6 by the time week 7 is over, we're at 116.4, because we had pucks in the floater the whole time.

    So...in 7 weeks, from 30 to 116.4. Let's say there are no more algae outbreaks because they sold me a huge bucket of phos-free and another of yellow-out monopersulfate "shock" Nothing but the pucks and the extra 4 oz of dichlor "shock" weekly. So the next 7 weeks added 66.5, which brings the total to 182.9 CYA.

    Now if we didn't understand this and things looked a bit hazy, we might throw an extra puck or two in the floater every couple weeks, which will drive it over 200 easily.


    And then next year when you try to open, you're whining here how you "shocked" it and it's still green. And then you get indignant at the cost and bother to drain 3/4 of the pool. Seen it over and over and over and over here.

    You're certainly free to maintain your pool with whatever products you prefer - dichlor, trichlor, and Cal-hypo can all have their uses. The source of the FC isn't important; what IS important is understanding what is happening and not overusing the wrong chemical.
    Shasta 10,500 gallon play pool/spa, pebble tech finish (10/12), in floor cleaning, 2' free-fall, deck jets, Hayward 2hp SP3400VSP pump, Jandy 8 cartridge filter, LX heater and AquaLink Sunny Phoenix, AZ

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: BBB = Inexpensive? I must be missing something...

    Quote Originally Posted by SunMan
    Loved your analysis. I am at the end of that cycle myself and have resigned to draining and refilling. My question in the interim is about high FC needed with CYA levels near 200. The target of 12 is much higher than the "safe" , that the bags of shock say to stay out of the pool if above 4. What is the effect of such high chlorine on swimmers?
    FC=7.5, CC=.5, CYA >160, PH 7.6 and CH 370.
    No problem at all. The actual "live" chlorine level is lower than, say, 2 at zero CYA, which is typical tap water. I've maintained a pool over 200 CYA and swam in water at 22 FC with no problem at all. Nobody will know it's that high unless you tell them.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    SunMan's Avatar
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    Re: BBB = Inexpensive? I must be missing something...

    Thanks Richard, that is reassuring. What is the down-side of postponing the draining to lower CYA?
    Shasta 10,500 gallon play pool/spa, pebble tech finish (10/12), in floor cleaning, 2' free-fall, deck jets, Hayward 2hp SP3400VSP pump, Jandy 8 cartridge filter, LX heater and AquaLink Sunny Phoenix, AZ

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: BBB = Inexpensive? I must be missing something...

    Quote Originally Posted by SunMan
    Thanks Richard, that is reassuring. What is the down-side of postponing the draining to lower CYA?
    One, your pH test will always be doubtful because of the high FC. Two, you can't use the quick color match test to check FC, you have to use FAS-DPD every single day. Three: If you do get algae, it will take such massive amounts of bleach to clear that you'd end up draining then anyway. Four: you can't use pucks in a floater when you go out of town.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Sunman's new thread

    With CYA that high, I strongly recommend that you replace water to lower the CYA level below 100.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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