Noisy Hayward Super Pump (<1 year old) w/ Video & Photos

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gschum

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Jul 5, 2013
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Hi everyone. This 1 year old hayward super pump is running noisy, any help diagnosing the issue would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqsTmWvCf-g

I checked the Diffuser and Impeller and they both seemed to be ok. The pump is almost 1 year old so I don't think it is the motor bearings...

Could this noise be caused by sucking air somewhere?

*Additional Info*

The pump seems to work fine and the poor is clear. I get lots of suction when vacuuming. Only real problem is the pump is noisy.
 
Re: Noisy Hayward Super Pump (<1 year old) w/ Video

It sounds a little like cavitation but it could be an impeller ring that is spinning. Is the filter pressure lower/higher/same than normal?

If it is about the same or higher, I would say it is something inside the wet end. If the pressure is much lower than normal, then it could be cavitation but it would have to be caused by a suction side blockage of some sort. Those pumps are really hard to get to cavitate so my guess it is something else.

What is the history? When did it start and what happened right before that?
 
Re: Noisy Hayward Super Pump (<1 year old) w/ Video

The filter pressure is same as it usually is. **EDIT:** Actually the Filter Pressure in the past has been closer to 15 psi after backwashing grids and fresh DE. This season it has been about 8-9ish since the plumbing has be redone.

Well my mom has been hiring these Pool Hacks for years (she is friends with Pool Hack's sister since childhood and he is not doing good health wise/or financially so she feels bad and gives him the business), so it could be anything with these schmucks. They just open and close the pool.

Towards the end of last summer our old hayward super pump died because the pool guy never disconnects it for storage in the winter. My dad use to when he was alive. I asked the pool hack about it and he ensured me that it made little to no difference... Well since then I have read different... So anyways, we bought a new pump and I personally installed it and it ran great with no problems for the rest of the summer (no noise).

This year they came out started the job of opening the pool, showed me the inline chlorinator which was damaged (cracked) which they installed 2 years ago. We use to heat the pool but we no longer do, the heater was still there. So the guy takes a zaw saw and cuts the plumbing to the heater. He also cut the returns to even them out to install the new plumbing since the heater was out of the equation now. They suggest to get rid of the chlorinator and use a floating dispenser instead. Well they didn't have all the right plumbing pieces to redo the returns. They were trying to piece together the plumbing using the old PVC they cut out. Once they realized they still didn't have enough they left for the day. (They showed up at 4pm on a Friday and left by 5:30) The Pool Hack didn't call back for 5 days since starting the job so i decided to finish the job. I put in the plumbing for the returns.

So I prime and fire up the pump and I have DE coming out the the returns jets. So I take apart the filter only to find the manifold has a crack in it that has a "band aid" over it and all 8 grids need replacing. So I fixed that. I go to vacuum the pool and DE is still getting by so I change the spider gasket that they allegedly put in last year (maybe a used one?)(Heck they wanted to reuse old PVC instead of spending $7 for 10ft piece so I wouldn't be surprised...). After replacing the spider gasket, vacuuming up the DE was solved.

The pump has been noisy since the beginning of this season. When I was inspecting the impeller and diffuser all I could find was some dog hair (not much) that got passed the skimmer basket and pump basket...

In the past they have redone some of the plumbing, that is why I was thinking it could be sucking air somewhere?

Anyways sorry for the long post but that is the full story. All I know is I told my mom that if you rehire them after years of ripping you off and I see them on the property I am going to punch him in the face so for the love of god please do not. I hope she listens. Sorry but I am very frustrated and irritated right now.
 
Re: Noisy Hayward Super Pump (<1 year old) w/ Video

When they redid the plumbing, it might be that the return head was reduced quite a bit so it created an imbalance in the lines (i.e. too much suction head and not enough return head) which can create cavitation. I am not 100% convinced so a picture of the pad equipment might help.

A few questions too:

Pump model# (or label HP)?

Any air in the pump basket?

Current filter pressure?

Filter gauge height relative to the pool water?

Distance from the pump to the pool?

Number of individual suction lines from the pool to the pad and pipe diameter?

Number of individual return lines pad to the pool and pipe diameter?

So basically, this started after they redid the plumbing and took out the heater, correct?
 
Re: Noisy Hayward Super Pump (<1 year old) w/ Video

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4 Jets, 3 by the front of the pool and the 4th one by the back aimed towards the skimmer.


Here is the link to the video again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqsTmWvCf-g


Pump model# (or label HP): C48L2N134B1

Any air in the pump basket: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqsTmWvCf-g I Don't think so, maybe a little? 10 seconds into the video I get real close to the lid.

Current filter pressure: 8-9ish PSI. Actually the Filter Pressure in the past has been closer to 15 psi after backwashing grids and fresh DE. This season it has been about 8-9ish consistently since the plumbing has be redone.

Filter gauge height relative to the pool water: Roughly 3 ft. Maybe a few inches over 3ft.

Distance from the pump to the pool: 12ft from Pump to Skimmer.

Number of individual suction lines from the pool to the pad and pipe diameter: 2 suction, 1 1/2 in piping. (Skimmer and Main Drain at bottom of pool)

Number of individual return lines pad to the pool and pipe diameter: 3 return, 1 1/2 Inch piping. (Although we have 4 jets).


Yes, this started after they redid the plumbing and took out the heater. The Pool Hack told me over the phone that a chlorinator wasn't necessary and that a floating dispenser would be fine. He told me he would have his employee cut out the chlorinator and put a straight piece of PVC in. Well his employee didn't listen and started to do things his own way and thats when he cut the plumbing to the heater, etc....

Thank you Mark for your time and help, it is greatly appreciated.
 
Re: Noisy Hayward Super Pump (<1 year old) w/ Video

Ok thanks for the extra info and the picture. That helps.

One thing you could try is to shut off the two returns that are controlled by the valve between them. If you position the valve to close the common pipe, it will force all of the return water through the third pipe. The filter pressure should go up and if it is cavitation, that should stop. If it continues, then it probably isn't cavitation.
 
Re: Noisy Hayward Super Pump (<1 year old) w/ Video

Just tested what you suggested. Turned the jandy valve to the off position forcing all the water to return to the third return line with no valve. The noise went away and the pressure went up to about 12-13ish...

So it is Cavitation? How can this be resolved? The return line with the Jandy valve controls the jets in front and back of pool. These 2 are the most important for keeping the top of the water clean (pushing the water from the shallow end to the back jet which is aimed towards the skimmer). The return line without the valve feeds the jets by the seats in the shallow end...

The pool water is clear and clean. Pump seems to be working good besides it being noisy. Plenty of suction when vacuuming.

If I leave this go and ignore the noise, will cavitation cause damage to my equipment?
 
Cavitation can cause pitting in the impeller but serious damage would probably take some time. However, there may be some things that you can try to alleviate the problem. The easiest would be to replace the eyeballs in the returns with smaller diameter eyeballs. This will create higher head loss and reduce the flow the rate some. Plus it has the added benefit of higher exit velocity out of the eyeballs for better water movement. What size are the return eyeballs right now and do you know if you can replace them?

In addition, you might consider downsizing the pump impeller. Smaller impellers are less likely to cavitate since they are less likely to produce the high suction head required to cavitate. This has the added benefit of reducing energy costs. Given the size of the pool, you could easily get away with a 3/4 HP impeller.
 

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The inner diameter is roughly 1 inch.

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The one jet in the deep end that pushes water towards the skimmer is a female connecting to a male threaded pipe. The one jet in the shallow end that pushes water towards the deep end is a male connecting into a female thread. I am not sure if the local pool store sells these but perhaps amazon or some other site might?

x6yo.jpg



In regards to the impeller. So I can replace the impeller to a smaller size and still use the 1 1/2 HP motor?

The pump is going to be a year old in a month. I am not really looking to spend another $450 on a new pump.
 
gschum said:
In regards to the impeller. So I can replace the impeller to a smaller size and still use the 1 1/2 HP motor?
Click to expand...
Yes, you can use the same motor and if you don't remove the seal, you can reuse that too. You should be able to spin off the old impeller and replace it with this one.

http://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SPX2605C- ... B004VTGP0A

Or you can use the 1 HP impeller which should also work but won't reduce flow rate as much as the 3/4 HP:

http://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SPX2607C- ... p+impeller


As for the eyeballs, I think they are like these but double check the thread size:

http://www.amazon.com/Pool-Eyeball-Jet- ... ol+eyeball

3/4" should be a good size and give enough restriction to help with the cavitation.

Also, are you sure that you didn't leave in the threaded part on some of the returns? They are usually two pieces. If not, you might be better off checking the pool store to get an exact match.

[EDIT] I calculated what the suction head should be based upon your description and it doesn't appear as though the pump should be in cavitation if everything is working properly. Are the suction lines flex line? Have you check them for any blockage? Do you have a float valve in the skimmer?
 
Yes the suction side and returns are all flex lines coming from underground into 90 elbows into T shape PVC with a Jandy valve with the exception of the one return (still flex line). I haven't checked the flex lines for blockage. No float valve in the skimmer. How do I check for blockage in the flex lines? And I might of left some of 2nd threaded pieces in the returns. I'll have to check.

Thanks again Mark.

EDIT:

So I shouldn't go buy a smaller impeller and pool eyeball jets until I check for blockage right?
 
Is it ok to run the pump like this for a little while until the issue is diagnosed and resolved (since it may no longer be cavitation)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqsTmWvCf-g

I don't want to go to the pool store and buy parts if that isn't going to fix the issue. I also don't want the pool water turning back to green like it was when the mesh cover was taking off at beginning of the season.

Any help with this dilemma would be greatly appreciated.
 
The issue is probably cavitation but the cause might be because there is something wrong with the suction lines. Normal suction lines should not create that much head loss to create cavitation. So I was thinking it could be blockage of some sort or the collapsed suction line but it is hard to tell. You might try back-flushing the lines from the pump side to see if anything comes out just to make sure. If the lines are clear, then it could just be a plumbing issue, either a collapsed line or some other type of restriction. But the recommendations I made earlier should still help.
 
I took a shop vac and blew out the suction side lines and nothing came out of the skimmer or the main drain. Any other ideas?

I took a video of the pump running without the impeller to test for bad motor bearings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zC2-J91xCI

Can anyone tell me if this sounds the way a pump should?

Seems to me the bearings are fine and the noise is another issue?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
Motor sounds fine.

So the only thing I can thing I can think of is that one or both of the suction lines are partially collapsed or the head loss in the flex line is jut higher than normal. Either way it would not be an easy fix so if you just want to fix the problem with minimal effort, I would recommend first changing the eyeballs because that is easiest. Then second, if that doesn't completely eliminate the problem then downsize the impeller although you may want to do that anyway to save on energy costs.
 

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