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Thread: The end of Baquacil ...process starting on Sept 15, 2013

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    bbodb1's Avatar
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    The end of Baquacil ...process starting on Sept 15, 2013

    As the calendar hits July here, our region is in the midst of an unusual stretch of less than normal temperatures. A July day in Arkansas with a high of 83 degrees is cause for celebration. However, as I look at my pool today, I am fighting a cloudy water issue so my desire to celebrate just isn't there....

    I have read and pondered on the potential benefits with respect to converting this pool to some other method of water treatment but given the amount of Baquacil chemicals I have on hand, I am tempted to finish this year out on Baquacil and do a conversion at the end of this swimming year, or at the beginning of the next year. My situation leads to a few questions if I might.....

    (1) Sand filter cleaning as I reflect on past cleaning practices with respect to our sand filter, I'm wondering if we haven't chemically cleaned our filter often enough (using the Baquacil Universal Filter cleaner). I've had people tell me not to bother using a filter cleaner at all on a Baquacil pool - instead, change the sand. The problem is, neither option is cheap but more importantly, neither option seems to have produced long term positive results. This is frustrating....so question 1 is:

    If I am to remain on Baquacil for the remainder of this year, can someone please provide thoughts on how often a filter should be cleaned (using the Baquacil Universal Filter cleaner) and how often the sand should be changed?

    (2) If I am going to convert, looking at the period of time from later October (which is about the usual pool closing time here), and mid to late April (pool opening time), when would be the ideal time to convert this pool to some other form of maintenance?

    (3) Does the fact I have a vinyl liner on the pool (replaced in 2011) that has been maintenanced with Baquacil, prevent me from converting?

    (4) If I can convert, I'd really like to NOT add any additional equipment (with the exception of a solid test kit). Does that desire mean a salt water conversion is out and the BBB method is my only choice? (I'm okay if that is my only choice, I just want to be 100% certain I understand the options and choices here).

    Thanks in advance for any insights offered!
    20K gal, IG vinyl, Waterfall on 2nd pump (1HP US Motor), Dolphin cleaning system, Central Arkansas, installed 1999
    1HP Emerson (main pump), Purex Triton II (TR 60) Sand Filter (replaced original 2016), Purex Triton Mini Max Plus 250 Heater (unused for several years)

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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: The end of Baquacil (?) perhaps coming soon...

    I have read a few stories about B to CL conversion. My understanding it requires a good test kit (TF-100XL comes to mind) and a lot of bleach and even more POP (pool owner patience).

    Not an expert but I do know... Pictures are "required" for these conversions.

    Required reading: pool-school/baqua_chlorine_conversion

    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: The end of Baquacil (?) perhaps coming soon...

    If you want baquacil to succeed long term you should replace your sand, and about half of your water, each year.

    The best time to do the conversion is either in the early spring next year or the late fall this year, while the pool is open and the water is cold. Waiting till next year has some minor advantages, but either way is good.

    You are fine to do a conversion with a vinyl liner.

    The conversion process for salt and BBB are the same. For salt you just add salt at the end. Either way you need to go through a baquacil to chlorine conversion, which is a fairly large project.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Administrator Leebo's Avatar
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    Re: The end of Baquacil (?) perhaps coming soon...

    One big question I've got is just what Baqua chemicals do you have on hand?? After using the BBB process I've kinda seen where Baquacil could improve it's suggestions in dealing with cloudy water. Just as if you were using chlorine, a large part of using Baqua with cloudy water is the "Oxidizer" (the equivalent to chlorine). If your water is cloudy you'll need to hit it with a heavy dose of Oxidizer to get it 100% clean. Once the water is clean then keep a large amount of the Sanitizer and Algistat in the water as well as use only the Performance Algicide...which I believe is the same as Polyquat 60.

    All of these options make the price go high big time. Add to that the thought of fresh water and new sand just to change the sand again next year, then it may push you into swapping sooner. I agree with Jason in terms of doing it in the spring when the Baqua levels are low. I'd skip all closing chemicals this year and hit it hard in the spring.....unless you switch sooner.

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    Re: The end of Baquacil (?) perhaps coming soon...

    Here are a series of photos showing how things stand right now.

    http://s840.photobucket.com/user/seveno ... ool%20Pics

    It is a bit hard to see in these photos but I have cloudy water (a bit green) but the bottom is not too bad. I am cleaning my filter chemically as I took these photos and I'll post an updated (after) shot later this week.

    The photo with the white step gives the best perspective on the cloudy water...
    20K gal, IG vinyl, Waterfall on 2nd pump (1HP US Motor), Dolphin cleaning system, Central Arkansas, installed 1999
    1HP Emerson (main pump), Purex Triton II (TR 60) Sand Filter (replaced original 2016), Purex Triton Mini Max Plus 250 Heater (unused for several years)

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    Re: The end of Baquacil (?) perhaps coming soon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Leebo
    One big question I've got is just what Baqua chemicals do you have on hand?? ....
    At present, I have exhausted a summer supply package worth of oxidizer (#2) but still have seven bottles of Sanitizer/Algistat (#1) and seven bottles of CDX (#3). If I recall correctly, my package came with eight bottles of Oxidizer. Given the usual season around here, the Algistat and CDX would likely be sufficient to finish the swimming year. I could purchase oxidizer to finish the year and therefore use most of these chemicals.

    I also have about 10 lbs each of calcium plus and alkalinity plus.

    I had my water tested earlier this week and it was considered OK in all areas but was toward the low end of acceptability for oxidizer.
    20K gal, IG vinyl, Waterfall on 2nd pump (1HP US Motor), Dolphin cleaning system, Central Arkansas, installed 1999
    1HP Emerson (main pump), Purex Triton II (TR 60) Sand Filter (replaced original 2016), Purex Triton Mini Max Plus 250 Heater (unused for several years)

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    Re: The end of Baquacil (?) perhaps coming soon...

    Another thought with regards to the chemicals you have on hand is how many are unopened and how long have you had them. If you just bought them this swim season, maybe the pool store will take them back for a store credit. Then you can use the store credit to buy liquid cl for the conversion.
    Nicole

    21' AGP (10,400g)
    Hayward PowerFlo Matrix dual-speed 1HP pump, 75 sq ft Waterway cartridge filter
    4G Liquidator, Aquabot POOL ROVER S2-40

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    Administrator Leebo's Avatar
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    Re: The end of Baquacil (?) perhaps coming soon...

    Quote Originally Posted by heatmisr
    Another thought with regards to the chemicals you have on hand is how many are unopened and how long have you had them. If you just bought them this swim season, maybe the pool store will take them back for a store credit. Then you can use the store credit to buy liquid cl for the conversion.
    This is a strong suggestion that I too would try. Given that 1 bottle of oxidizer is about the same as 3 jugs of bleach, the cost to finish out the season with Baquacil could run high. With a 20k gallon pool I THINK the suggested amount of oxidizer is about 2 bottles (around $15 a piece) to start clearing it up. You'll need to keep adding (I'd suggest at night) until the water clears up, then start with the Sanitizer and CDX to keep it clear.

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    Re: The end of Baquacil (?) perhaps coming soon...

    And now, the time is near....and so we face the final curtain......for Baquacil.
    Getting ready for the conversion as I am out of chemicals and ready to put Baquacil in the rearview mirror. I am (once again) fighting a pool trying to turn green....I will document my experience with the process here...
    20K gal, IG vinyl, Waterfall on 2nd pump (1HP US Motor), Dolphin cleaning system, Central Arkansas, installed 1999
    1HP Emerson (main pump), Purex Triton II (TR 60) Sand Filter (replaced original 2016), Purex Triton Mini Max Plus 250 Heater (unused for several years)

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    Re: The end of Baquacil (?) perhaps coming soon...

    Looking forward to it
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: The end of Baquacil (?) perhaps coming soon...

    Day 1: Sept 15th, 2013
    Preparing for the switch

    Heeding the advice read elsewhere in this site, I am ordering a TF-100 Test Kit and taking advantage of the XL option (recommended for those with Green Monster pools). See photo attached for current state of pool water.
    Happy to see that PayPal is accepted as a payment option for the TF Test Kit.

    In taking stock of the current state of my pool cleaning equipment, one item I cannot find is the connector between my pool cleaning hose and the skimmer basket. Prior to purchasing the Dolphin pool cleaner we now use, we previously used a Kreepy system. The connector that joined the Kreepy hose to the plate that sat on top of the skimmer inlet has disappeared. I have yet to find that part number (or the proper name for the part) if anyone can please provide the name of that part, that would be most helpful as I can't find the proper name yet....

    Also, during a trip to town today, I plan on looking at bleach in several stores to see what my bleach purchasing options may be....more on that later.

    Click here for a dedicated thread on bleach prices.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    20K gal, IG vinyl, Waterfall on 2nd pump (1HP US Motor), Dolphin cleaning system, Central Arkansas, installed 1999
    1HP Emerson (main pump), Purex Triton II (TR 60) Sand Filter (replaced original 2016), Purex Triton Mini Max Plus 250 Heater (unused for several years)

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: The end of Baquacil ...process starting on Sept 15, 2013

    It depends if you have threads or some other attachment method to the vacuum plate. I believe it is called a "vacuum plate adapter". Post a pic of your plate.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: The end of Baquacil ...process starting on Sept 15, 2013

    Here is a picture of the plate that goes on top of the skimmer - this is the plate to which the connector holds the hose. (It is the connector I am missing - I recall it being white if that helps.)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    20K gal, IG vinyl, Waterfall on 2nd pump (1HP US Motor), Dolphin cleaning system, Central Arkansas, installed 1999
    1HP Emerson (main pump), Purex Triton II (TR 60) Sand Filter (replaced original 2016), Purex Triton Mini Max Plus 250 Heater (unused for several years)

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    Re: The end of Baquacil ...process starting on Sept 15, 2013

    With the test kit received on Wednesday of this week, I am starting the process today (Sat. Sept 21).

    Note: I have seen very few items organized as well as the TF-100 test kit. A packing list with matching number codes and descriptions made ensuring all of the package contents were in the shipment a snap. High marks to the folks at TF Test Kits!

    Per instructions, starting with a PH test (result is 8.0). Pool is green.
    Added 45 oz of 31.45% muriatic acid. (Acid cost $7.35 per gallon at local hardware store. No doubt, lower prices can be found).

    Four hours later - PH reads 7.2!...moving to next step!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    20K gal, IG vinyl, Waterfall on 2nd pump (1HP US Motor), Dolphin cleaning system, Central Arkansas, installed 1999
    1HP Emerson (main pump), Purex Triton II (TR 60) Sand Filter (replaced original 2016), Purex Triton Mini Max Plus 250 Heater (unused for several years)

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    Re: The end of Baquacil ...process starting on Sept 15, 2013

    Just to verify one thing with respect to bleach.....in reading the label, the active ingredient in GV bleach is sodium hypochlorite (8.25%). I am assuming this is an acceptable active ingredient - is that correct?
    20K gal, IG vinyl, Waterfall on 2nd pump (1HP US Motor), Dolphin cleaning system, Central Arkansas, installed 1999
    1HP Emerson (main pump), Purex Triton II (TR 60) Sand Filter (replaced original 2016), Purex Triton Mini Max Plus 250 Heater (unused for several years)

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    Re: The end of Baquacil ...process starting on Sept 15, 2013

    Yep, that is the right stuff.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: The end of Baquacil ...process starting on Sept 15, 2013

    Thanks, Linen!

    Chlorine test found no chlorine so per the pool calculator, I need to add 452 oz of bleach to the pool. Here goes .... and I'll take more photos to see the color changes.
    20K gal, IG vinyl, Waterfall on 2nd pump (1HP US Motor), Dolphin cleaning system, Central Arkansas, installed 1999
    1HP Emerson (main pump), Purex Triton II (TR 60) Sand Filter (replaced original 2016), Purex Triton Mini Max Plus 250 Heater (unused for several years)

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    bbodb1's Avatar
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    Re: The end of Baquacil ...process starting on Sept 15, 2013

    The cloud nebula or the trail of pee?

    You decide!

    It did not take long to see the effects of adding the chlorine bleach!
    Note: a backwashing was necessary within 30 minutes.
    This application was done about 2 hours prior to sundown. I'll check FC levels again just after sundown and add more bleach as needed.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    20K gal, IG vinyl, Waterfall on 2nd pump (1HP US Motor), Dolphin cleaning system, Central Arkansas, installed 1999
    1HP Emerson (main pump), Purex Triton II (TR 60) Sand Filter (replaced original 2016), Purex Triton Mini Max Plus 250 Heater (unused for several years)

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    Administrator Leebo's Avatar
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    Re: The end of Baquacil ...process starting on Sept 15, 2013

    You can check it now.....as I'm sure it's down to zero. At the start you will use up ALOT of FC's burning up the Baqua.

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    Re: The end of Baquacil ...process starting on Sept 15, 2013

    Thanks Lebo! Just checked - right after sundown. PH is holding in the 7.2 - 7.4 range and the FC count was in the 2 - 4 range. Air temp today is a rather mild 77 (and a nice day to be outside). Adding another 2 1/2 gallons of bleach.

    Other notes and observations:
    We are vacuuming to get as much green algae out as possible.
    The white water mold I had been fighting seems gone - not seeing any of it blowing out the returns....
    After the yellowish cloud spread through the pool, there hasn't been much more of a color change.

    Here is a shot of the pool just before sundown. I'll post more shots in the morning.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    20K gal, IG vinyl, Waterfall on 2nd pump (1HP US Motor), Dolphin cleaning system, Central Arkansas, installed 1999
    1HP Emerson (main pump), Purex Triton II (TR 60) Sand Filter (replaced original 2016), Purex Triton Mini Max Plus 250 Heater (unused for several years)

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