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Thread: Pool "stored" and pool "guy'ed" when down

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    gonzoTG's Avatar
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    Pool "stored" and pool "guy'ed" when down

    Without getting into a lot of back story, I have had this pool for two seasons and had little trouble for the first half of the first season and then things went downhill and I have struggled since. Last year I was at 100% travel so I had to rely on others but that has changed so this year I can address these issues personally. Having just discovered this site, I've been lurking for a while and absorbing information Based on this alone the site is worth supporting and I am happy to do so. Now on to my problems...

    Mechanically, my liner started to float towards the end of last season when the area went from near drought conditions to a record rainfall Aug and Sept. which ended up being a bigger problem and expense to address having dry well dug around the base of the pool to attempt to alleviate the hydraulic pressure after much discussion with pool guy #1. Similar issue at pool opening this year which makes me think that I may have a leak in the liner which pool guy #1 installed for the previous owner right before I bought the house. Pool guy #1 has been hesitant to look at any liner IMHO because he as the installer and I am suspect that he may be avoiding warranty issues. I have separated the liner from the back at the seam and have been transferring out the water and I measured for chemical composition to attempt to make a determination that the water is the same, i.e. liner leaking. However, until discovering this site I have been using test strips which are limited in their ability to compare. I have a test kit on the way and will add my chemistry info when my kit arrives for both in pool and behind the liner (hopefully today). I could add from my strips but I will save the responses of that it's not accurate enough. I also attempted to test for leak by measuring evaporation between the pool and a pail that I partially filled and set in the pool with the idea that I am only interested in comparison of evaporation and not actual rate. This test was inconclusive over a couple days being differentiated by an amount that was difficult to measure without more exacting equipment.

    Any advice on how to test leak versus ground water / hydraulic would be welcome. My hypothesis is that I have a combination problem here with a small leak and a ground water issue where over time the space does not drain well so if its wet over long periods it becomes a problem and if its dry its almost indistinguishable from normal evaporation.

    Second problem is a filtration one in which I likely already know the answer but, hey what's a forum for if not a sounding board? End of last year I had filtration problems, it didn't get as much attention as it should have as I was in the throws of contracting to have half my yard tore up for drainage work. Pool store (local) suggested changing the sand filer media which I scoffed at but again wasn't home to address so I told the wife to go for it. Really no change but again, fighting a large expensive problem and not as focused on this one. This year I have disassembled the mulitport valve more than once, inspected and changed the media (thinking that maybe they did a poor job or used play sand or something incorrect) in-between getting all sorts of poor advice from pool store on chemicals (acid and base at same time), clarifier, floc etc.

    Today was the straw that tells me there must be a mechanical issue with the filter. Cleaning up after an algae bloom issue from a view days prior with vacuum. I have certain areas along the seams on the floor that seem to collect a large amount of dead algae when this happens. I started vacuuming these and noticed a plume coming out of the return closest to where I was standing. Not sure the median particle size of dead algae but if the sand is good to remove down to about 40 micron, this should catch this right? Did I forget to mention that the pressure on the filter has not risen one PSI since installation of new sand despite 24/7 operation? I'm pretty well convinced that the multiport valve is leaking by although it appears to be mechanically sound and that the wagon wheel gasket is not in new condition but is not completly mangled (or missing) either. Again any advice would be welcome. We live in the Erie, PA area where the season is short so I am making plans to change the filter unit completely as the top valves on my current Jandy 24T unit is obsolete (maybe that should tell me something...). Again, anything from this group would be welcome along this journey of check writing.

    I'll address chemistry in a separate post as this is becoming a wall of text.
    18K IG Vinyl
    Jandy 24ST Sand with 1HP Hayward Superpump
    Paramount 6 way distributor valve
    Teledyne Laars Model ESG (gas) Heater

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Pool "stored" and pool "guy'ed" when down

    Welcome!

    The search box is your best friend when you have a myriad of problems.

    I suspect that once you get a good test kit in your mitts (I hope you ordered a speedstir, too) and you get about a week's testing and balancing in, that uor algae problems will be gone. You might try adding a liitle DE to your filter - it filters much finer than the sand filter does.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    gonzoTG's Avatar
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    Re: Pool "stored" and pool "guy'ed" when down

    Thanks,

    I will continue to dig and search through the community as I am sure my problems are not unique. I did order a speedstir as well as titration without is a bit dodgy. I will also give the DE a try as I have read about that on here and it should give me some additional information. IF it blows through my filter and right into the pool despite dilution, slow addition etc. it will tell me something too. Pump and filter not matched set maybe to much pressure / flow to rat hole media? Tracking says I should have kit today and will post info when I receive.
    18K IG Vinyl
    Jandy 24ST Sand with 1HP Hayward Superpump
    Paramount 6 way distributor valve
    Teledyne Laars Model ESG (gas) Heater

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Re: Pool "stored" and pool "guy'ed" when down

    Any type of filter should never return visible dirt to the pool. Several reason why they can but you seem to have them covered.

    Most common is the filter is too dirty and needs to be backwashed. Broken lateral is often suspected and sometimes is the culprit. Did you inspect them when you changed sand?

    What about the standpipe? It can be broken or not seated properly and allow dirt to pass through the filter but, again, I assume you have covered all that.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    gonzoTG's Avatar
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    Re: Pool "stored" and pool "guy'ed" when down

    I looked at the laterals but only to the extent that they were all attached and seem to be at the correct angles in their configuration. I have not seen any sand in the pool as I understand this to be a tell tale symptom of lateral issue. I did pick up a bag of DE and tried that with some success. I ended up putting in quite a bit at first to see a 1.5 psi rise (changed gauge too to make sure) then the pressure rose fast while vacuuming and I had to backwash and reset which I did with a smaller amount of DE. If the pressure is rising then I should expect that the multivalve is not failing or blowing by or I shouldn't see full pressure here so that is a good sign. That said the cloudiness has not abated but that could be a chemistry issue that I am working on now that I have a test kit and can use the BBB method.

    Still not sure if this filter matched with a 1 hp pump is a correct pairing and if this is a potential cause but will continue to use DE as a filter aide until chemistry is lined out.
    18K IG Vinyl
    Jandy 24ST Sand with 1HP Hayward Superpump
    Paramount 6 way distributor valve
    Teledyne Laars Model ESG (gas) Heater

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    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
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    Re: Pool "stored" and pool "guy'ed" when down

    I will toss my 2 cents in. I've seen the exact symptom (dirt coming back into pool returns while vacuuming) myself. Every time it happened, the "spider gasket" in the multiport filter was to blame. These gaskets on my Hayward filter tend to go out a couple of times per season, so I always keep them on hand. Recently I was losing an inch a day of water, and it was out the waste port of the valve.

    Get your screwdriver, and remove the 6-8 screws on top of the multiport valve, being careful not to lose the nuts on the bottom side. Lift the top off by the handle, and inspect the gasket. If it is deformed at all between any of the 5-6 chambers inside the valve, then it needs to be replaced.

    My most common failure is the segment between the normal filter position and the recirculate position, so that water is bypassing the filter. That could be what is happening in your case.
    Jim

    27K gal, IG vinyl, 3/4 HP Starite pump w/ 1HP motor, Hayward Micro-Clear 36 sqft DE filter, Hayward Salt and Swim 3C, Kreepy Krauly cleaner. Pool age 30+ years.

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    gonzoTG's Avatar
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    Erie, PA
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    Re: Pool "stored" and pool "guy'ed" when down

    I think that you are probably right on the gasket. I had opened this valve up on a couple different occasions and although not mangled or missing or a definitive "ah ha" sight it does look less than perfect on the sealing edge and overall just looks to be a flimsy, non robust design. I have added some DE as a filter aid and some pressure will build but it also looks like a little of the DE has gotten back into the pool and I have a little cloudiness. I am two days post shock process, my chemistry is below.

    FC-7.5
    CC -0
    TA-80
    CH-150
    pH-7.2
    CYA-55

    I want to avoid the use of a clarification chemical or floc if possible. My sand filter / valve combination has been obsoleted so I have not had much luck in finding a replacement. There are other "compatible" valves that I have found but not sure if would be better off with a replacement filter as maybe this design is inherently flawed. Any opinions on that would be welcome.
    18K IG Vinyl
    Jandy 24ST Sand with 1HP Hayward Superpump
    Paramount 6 way distributor valve
    Teledyne Laars Model ESG (gas) Heater

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