Need help with bromine pool

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DTFUDGE

DTFUDGE

0
Jun 11, 2012
29
Lebanon, TN
I acquired a pool with a reposed house a year and a half ago . I found y'all before had a new liner put in. So when I got it opened I installed a salt system and have been using these methods from day one. I have never had a problem. I sit out there and just looking for stuff to do. Well this year I have taken on two more pools, one salt water that I took from a solid green mess to crystal clear in five days. The other is a bromine pool. I know very little about this. I have never had a bromine level of over 1ppm. It had a Hayward feeder on it and it was turned all the way. The pump went out and it sat for two days with no water movement. I replaced the pump and put a 15 pound feeder on it with a one inch line today. The water was semi foggy today so I added two gallons of 12.5% and about 80oz Dichloro 99%. I tested about an hour after that and had a FC reading of 7.5. What is my test kit ( TF 100 ) reading, chlorine or bromine? How do I shock this pool properly ? And what levels do I keep this pool at? Any help will be much appreciated.


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Chlorine and bromine are both detected by the same tests, so yes, you can use a chlorine test to measure the bromine level as long as you remember to convert the units.

The wording gets a little strange. You use chlorine to activate the bromine, so you add only chlorine, but are shocking with bromine and need to measure bromine levels. All of this assumes you have enough bromine/bromide added to the pool at some point to create a bromide reserve.
 
I have a extremely good understanding of a chorine pool but this is a bit confusing so you will have to excuse me sounding a bit dumb. The pool has been a bromine pool for 12 years now so I have to assume that there is bromine/bromide in the pool. When I get to the pool this morning I will be testing the bromine level, right? After the test, do I add chorine or bromine to the pool to bring the bromine up to shock level?
 
Yes, having been a bromine pool for 12 years, your pool is likely to have a substantial bromide bank, assuming you have actually been adding bromine to it either by adding sodium bromide at times or a product containing sodium bromide such as most granular brominating concentrate products or have been using bromine tabs.

Yes, when you test your pool you will be testing the total bromine level, even if you use a chlorine test kit to do so (and multiply the result by 2.25 in that case due to the differing units of measurement for bromine vs. chlorine).

Chlorine and non-chlorine shock (MPS) will both convert bromide to bromine so are said to activate bromine. When you shock, you usually add an oxidizer such as chlorine to activate more bromine in the pool and it is mostly the bromine that then does whatever it is you want done for shocking such as oxidizing bather waste or killing algae. You could technically add a bromine product to shock, but that's more expensive and not necessary since you should already have a substantial bromide bank so do not need to increase it. Activating more bromine by adding chlorine is less expensive.
 
I just got back from testing and vacuuming. The water was a fairly hazy. I could see the floor drain but not the two screws that hold the lid on.
The levels were as follows:

Bromine- 22.5
TA 130

I did not test for anything else because pH is supposed to not be accurate at shock levels. It was 7.7 last time I tested a week ago.

I was told that I should run the TA at 140-150 because it would help maintain the bromine. Is there any truth to this or should I take it back down to the normal chlorine level?

The biggest problem I have is how do I know when I have all of the bromine activated and just need to add more bromine, is there a point when I will add bleach and the bromine level will not go up any more? Also if I use a chlorine or Sodium Dichloro how do I figure how much to add? Do I use the 2.25 conversion number?

The pool is a 25000 in ground vinyl using bromine tablets in a inline feeder.
 
DTFUDGE said:
I was told that I should run the TA at 140-150 because it would help maintain the bromine. Is there any truth to this or should I take it back down to the normal chlorine level?

The biggest problem I have is how do I know when I have all of the bromine activated and just need to add more bromine, is there a point when I will add bleach and the bromine level will not go up any more? Also if I use a chlorine or Sodium Dichloro how do I figure how much to add? Do I use the 2.25 conversion number?
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The TA has nothing to do with maintaining the bromine. The TA has to do with pH balance and a higher TA will tend to make the pH rise unless you are using an acidic source of bromine such as some bromine tabs. If your pH tends to rise, then you can lower the TA to lessen that rate of rise.

Unfortunately, it is not easy to determine the level of your bromide bank. There is a way, but it's complicated and requires a FAS-DPD chlorine test kit. Generally, you can assume you've got a bromide bank because it will only get lowered slowly through water dilution and some bromine outgassing. And yes, when using The Pool Calculator to figure out dosing using chlorine to activate bromine, you use the 2.25 conversion number so divide your total bromine target by 2.25 to put into the calculator as FC.
 
Thanks for your help. I do have the FAS/DPD test kit. I got the TF-100 and added a few options and tools, I had to put it in a tool box because I got so much stuff.

So if I want a bromine level of 18 I plug in and 8 in the pool calculator right? I'm not sure about pH drift yet, Ive only been taking care or the pool for a couple of weeks. I am using a bromine tab but I'm not sure what is in it.
 

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Thanks so much. You and TFP are the bomb. It amazes me at the complaints I here from so many pool owners and when I tell them of this place they look at me like I'm crazy and say "I have a pool store that will take care of me", yeah right, take care of your wallet. I'll just keep enjoying my so clear it makes me sick pool and they can keep enjoying their green tinted swamps.
 
Ok, I went and tested again this morning. I forgot to turn the bromine feeder back on Thursday when I was there. The bromine level went from 22.5 on Thursday to 3.5 today. The water is a lot clearer now. I turned the feeder on the lowest setting and added 30 oz dichloro. Do I keep adjusting the feeder to maintain the recommend 2- ppm bromine or do I add an oxidizer? Is there any type of test you would like me to do so that we can figure out exactly what should be added regularly ?


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That is a HUGE loss of bromine over one day and proves that the tablets are no better than the oxidizer -- you were just using a LOT of tablets to try and maintain the bromine level. Before trying to shock the pool to kill off or oxidize whatever is using up so much bromine, why don't you do an overnight bromine loss test. So add an oxidizer, say chlorine bleach or chlorinating liquid, to get to a high bromine level such as 20 ppm and do that after the sun is off the pool. Measure the Total Bromine level about an hour later to be sure you added the right amount. Then measure again in the morning before the sun hits the pool (or as soon as possible after that) and let us know that loss.

I'm just trying to figure out if the high loss is from sunlight or if it's something in the pool.

It's possible that you've used too many tablets and have built up a side-product from them called DMH. Some states/counties limit that amount to 200 ppm. It is possible DMH may act like CYA does with chlorine to limit bromine's effectiveness, but I have no definitive data on that.
 
Rats, the pool is about 25 minutes from me but if this is what it takes to fix it this is what I'll do. I will get there around 7 tonight and hit it with some bleach and retest at 8 and adjust if needed. I will go back in the morning and retest at 5:30. I will post the current conditions tonight when I get there and I will post the type of bromine I have too. Wouldn't it be easier to just forget about the 2.25 conversation since our test shows a chorine number and the pool calculator runs off of chorine numbers? We could just say maintain the pool at 1-3.5 ppm and shock at 6.5-8.5ppm.


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Yeah, those are the standard chlorine and bromine combination tablets. The chlorine oxidizes bromide from the bromide bank to make bromine while the bromine from the tabs becomes bromine (hypobromous acid) in the water directly. The end result is bromine. The tabs do build up dimethylhydantoin (DMH) over time, but again I don't have good data for how ineffective this makes bromine.
 

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