OKC renovation - forty-year facelift

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Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

OK, the first estimate came in today. It ... is expensive. And it ... lacks detail. This estimate is from a company that planned to tie into existing rebar and originally said they would extend the plumbing we have, but the bid actually quotes all new plumbing. We did have another company out last week, and should see some numbers from them soon, but their idea was to build a "pool within a pool" and basically shoot an entire new pool within the old pool, so it sounded like it might be even more expensive. Will be thinking about how to respond to first bid. The idea was to give the entire wish list and then trim the fat as needed to stay in budget, but without an itemized estimate it is hard to do. There was also the idea that we'd get a "straight remodel" quote for plaster, tile and coping as a Plan B, but we haven't seen that yet, will probably need to ask PB again.

Job Description: Convert existing geometric free form pool to a 16’ x 37’ rectangle pool. Pool will have an interior hot tub and sun-shelf & a coverstar auto-cover. Pool depth shall be altered to 6’ max. depth. Existing Hot tub will be abandoned and filled in. Conversion includes two new skimmers and piping, new return loop inside pool wall, new main drain line & new cleaner line (all existing plumbing will be abandoned) Removal & re-pour of existing concrete decking to accommodate conversion is included as well as “fill in” of decking where old areas of pool are abandoned. Pool will have dark plaster interior & cut-stone coping.
Total: $60,300.00
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Ouch! That stings a little. Hopefully you can get with the first one again soon and talk about details. He sounded good and knowledgeable but that is a chunk of change. Thanks for keeping us posted, and best of luck.
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Good luck, Mia! If you elect to do the major remodel, especially the reshaping the pool part, I'd budget for a cost overrun of 10% to 50%. No matter how good the estimate is, some unknowns will crop up.

When you start talking $60K to $100K for pool work, have you thought about moving? Maybe you could find a house you like with a pool that suits you better.

My simple pool rehab (new coping, plaster, patio) cost double the original estimate after we had to sue the original company and get all their work redone (except for the plaster).

All the best!
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Thanks, Brushpup and Tiger! DH and I love this house, and got a great deal on it (or we wouldn't have a pool at all), and are planning for this to be our "start a family" house, so it's all emotionally involved and fraught ... but after getting the quote, we did wonder "couldn't we just put a new pool in that other part of the yard and fill in the old one?" Especially once you start talking these very high numbers (keep in mind, OK is one of the most affordable places to live in the US, which means lower pay scales, lower home prices, etc - we've purchased an ENTIRE HOME for $60K before, and they want that to REMODEL A POOL?!)

I did circle back around to the PB1 and ask about eliminating the IG hot tub, as I presumed that was one of the more expensive aspects of the projects (that was the feeling I got from PB2 and it made sense due to the add'l plumbing, equip, etc). That would bring the estimate down a whopping $4K. After I contained my hysterical laughter, I requested an estimate for a straight remodel of existing pool (coping, tile, plaster, rebuild retaining wall), and that is $25.5K. Fill in leaky IG hot tub another $1500. We could deal with adding a "catchakid" fence and not reinvent the wheel.

Will keep pursuing other options, but DH has been warned - we may be getting into the pool remodeling biz! I have been inspired by the DIY remodels here, and actually think that we might be able to accomplish deck, retaining wall, coping and tile, then hire out plaster to a pro. We have built a paver patio (only 12x15, not 1000 sf ... yet) and tiled three bathrooms floors, one shower, and one kitchen floor. Not all of them turned out ... great ... but still. Slow and steady wins the race and we've got a little bit of experience under our belts - probably just enough to be dangerous. We shall see and I'll keep you updated!
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Sure thing Mia.

I don't know what your requirements for a new pool would be, but unless it's fairly modest, you won't be far from 60K with it either. At least not here, but you might do better up there and in OKC. I hear about prices in Dallas and it angers me when I find out what they are getting for 50K. With the boom on full throttle here, most builders act like everyone suddenly has pump jacks in their back yard. It is truly frustrating. Thanks for the update and I'll be curious what you come up with.
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Brushpup, I've seriously considered setting some appointments with Dallas PBs and trying to import one temporarily to OKC! I think the same of OKC PBs - they appear to think we all are riding the NG wave... Dang Liberal Arts degree, what was I thinking?!
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

MiaOKC said:
Brushpup, I've seriously considered setting some appointments with Dallas PBs and trying to import one temporarily to OKC! I think the same of OKC PBs - they appear to think we all are riding the NG wave... **** Liberal Arts degree, what was I thinking?!
Click to expand...

:lol:

Ummm...I dunno. That you would change the world maybe? Make it a better place? Hindsight you know.... :mrgreen:

I like the idea of the new pool, but I am torn...I love your old one too. I know...hit me. :whip:
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Problem is that is a pretty big pool.

Have you considered pricing out....

Putting a liner in the pool (but not making is so you can't re-plaster in 5-10 years)
New coping
Maybe new skimmers (because of liner, i don't really know)

Resurfacing just the hot tub.

?
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Pool season must be slowing down in OKC because last week we received "out of the blue" callbacks from two of the PBs we'd reached out to many moons ago. Both came to visit yesterday, and one I really liked. He had some great ideas, and helped us come to realize that it will be most effective to think of working with our current pool shape but making some tweaks to make it more useful to us (adding tanning ledge, bench, etc). His recommendation was to fill in the separate hot tub as well, and simply get a portable spa and place it somewhere else in the yard ... his point was once you start getting into $6-7K+ to get the existing (poorly located) hot tub running, it becomes a case of, "why?" I am beginning to agree, although it stings that we spent $1500 last year getting our gas re-pipe run to the hot tub heater only to NEVER EVER HAD IT RUN. Sigh. Live and learn. I'm thinking of alternatives, like maybe a future small outdoor kitchen, or a someday pool heater, or something else that uses gas in that area of the yard just so I don't feel like we flushed $1500. There is a point you don't want to throw good money after bad, and if the first start is to get a leak test at $700+, then I start to wonder.

At this moment, here's the tally:
PB1 Extreme remodel $60K, Basic $25.5K
PB2 ? Received a written bid in the mail last week that doesn't seem to be anything like what we talked about (i.e., Extreme and Basic makeovers. I think this PB might have waited so long between the appointment and writing the quote (I'd already given up on them) they forgot what they were supposed to be quoting. At any rate, whatever it was (looked somewhat like the Basic but maybe additional decking?), it was $42K
PB3 just visited yesterday, excited to see a bid soon
PB4 just visited yesterday. Didn't really "click" with this one, don't think we are the right fit. The whole thing was odd, and he was here maybe 15 minutes, so am feeling like this one might not be it, but we shall see.
 

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Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Good to hear a new update. It does sound like 2 forgot half of it. Maybe 3 will bring something to the table.
I'm with you on 4 and if it feels like that, it isn't right for ya. Please, 15 minutes? I don't think so.

Outdoor kitchen maybe....hey! :whoot: :party:
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Mia, have you considered the "other" alternative to this.......how about going to Country Time Leisure and getting one of those 24 foot round AGPs?

Perhaps filling in, making a nice paved area around that round pool. You could still use that gas line for an optional heater to extend the season a bit (we were in our "little" pool last Sunday morning). Since you have been researching, go back and look at some of the round AGP setups folks have done around here......that is if you can live with it.

That will also give the option in years to come to ditch the pool and have a nice patio area for resale......

Just a thought. I do really, REALLY love that pool. We have "hidden" neighbors who also have pools like yours around our Yukon area. The new ones are cool that everyone here has done, but the old "old school" pool in a mature neighborhood just seems to be so inviting.....

The remaining people in my area have had lots of movement from the earthquakes over the past couple of years. Earthquakes.....Oklahoma, who would have thought?

Bob E.
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Thanks all for checking in and your input. A quick update on this issue - as I halfway expected, we've never heard another peep from PB 4 - he must not have been feeling it (our wallets) either! Really like PB 3. He came back to our house after about a week and showed us a mock-up on his laptop, he had used the software that I've seen others post pics of their new build plans from on this forum before. We played with colors and looked at sample books. We discussed budget (I will have to be home to relate the figures he gave us on the bid) at some length, we told him we need to trim at least a 1/3 and he was totally fine with it. It was hard to compare bids as they were not apples-to-apples exactly. I wish I had taken the idea I'd read about somewhere on TFP about writing up an RFP, but I have gone through them and standardized the main points and found PB 1 and PB 3 are fairly similar, however PB 3 has called and emailed me a few times to check in since the pitch to see what we were thinking and has offered to take me by some of his projects next week. I will add more details about what we talked about when I have my bid in front of me, but at this time we are leaning towards a straight remodel of our existing pool (tile, cope, plaster, new lights & skimmers) and deal with the crumbled wall. Then we may come back and do the deck in a phase II later ... I believe the estimate was something around $10sf for tear out and repour (with rebar)/stain/stamp a new concrete deck, and I am not loving the idea of having a concrete deck (based on how cracked ALL CONCRETE IN THE WORLD seems to get) so am going to look at some with him. We have about 1,000sf, and wanted an bit of expansion so it was close to 1,300 for the proposed area.
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Currently trying to finalize materials to get a revised estimate from PB 3. The plan as it stands now is replaster a mid to dark gray plaster, add complementary 6x6 tile, plus tiles of some sort along the steps/swimout (maybe 3x6?), new coping (possibly pour in place concrete, depending on deck choice which is still up in the air), new decking - either stamped concrete 1300 sf (maybe Ashlar colored to look similar to NY or PA bluestone), or a small patio of genuine NY blue stone accented with synthetic turf. New retaining wall, pushed back from the pool and extended along both sides of the pool to "hug" it all the way around on two sides with some kind of stacked stone/blue stone look with seating ledge. Fill in hot tub and run new decking right over it. Place posts for a new pergola which DH and I will finish out ourselves. Pressure test, fix leaks, fix lights, replace skimmers. Lots of decisions!
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Lots of exciting things to consider. I'm looking forward to seeing your choices and physical progress at some point. Did an autocover fall to the budget ax? We love our gray plaster, mottling, brush marks and all.
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

We are very excited, bmoreswim! I am afraid the auto-cover has been nixed as part of putting the kibosh on the whole pool reshaping project. With the shape we have, an auto cover is pretty far-fetched (price and design wise), and the PBs we spoke with didn't like the auto covers for maintenance issues they say they have experienced (taken with a grain of salt, of course). It sounded like we would need an on-deck solution, which could be added later. We would either need a massive cover which would cover most of the pool deck as well (resulting in wear and tear on the cover) or two covers which operated independently. We've sort of put a pin in that for now. Another consideration we'd been kicking around was trying to revive our main drain, but after considering, we think we will leave it non-functional and fill in the hole with plaster. The ordeal we would have to go through to get the plumbing on that deepest part of the pool was going to be a PITA, and with two skimmers and something like seven returns we have a fair amount of circulation even without the main drain.

Physical progress at this point has been confined to our new, 8 foot cedar privacy fence and the beginning of clearing the brush and bushes from that side of the pool to visually open up the area. We LOVE our new fence - it replaced a 40 year old chain link beast. I also went to look at a mid gray plaster - the pic below was just after the PB added some blue-tinted algaecide so the color closest to the waterfall where circulation is the best is closer to the real color. We are even thinking of a dark gray, but are up in the air at the moment. We also have been out looking at NY blue stone, which is of course at the very high side of the budget in our area, but I still covet it so am trying to find some way to work it in.


Before


After


Gray Plaster


Close up of plaster texture/cracks



Oh, bluestone. Please come live at my house.


A true "Before" with a good view of the chain link (from right before we bought the house)


A good "before-ish" angle to start with as we move into the next phase. More pics as progress goes on!
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Your new fence looks really nice and is a significant upgrade. Yeah, you're right about the configuration issues with the autocover. Like you said, I'm sure they'd be glad to sell you two covers to provide the cleanest install! For almost twice the price I'm sure.

I've often wondered regarding having a harder stone (specifically the NY/PA bluestone you mention) delivered for applications such as yours. Adds to the cost I'm sure but the benefit of being able to go more or less worry free regarding stone deterioration with a SWCG is a big benefit. Then there's the natural cleft stone surface which you have pictured there vs. the thermal treated surface (more expensive yet but also very consistent). Or tumbled bluestone, which is kind of in between.

As I'm sure you've read here, lots of people intentionally go without main drains and it can work just fine. So in your case, that's probably a decision that works well for the pocket book and the pool function.

Thanks for the pics and discussion so far.
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Thanks for the update Mia. I'm not knocking anyone's choice, but I would consider spending the extra on a good quartz finish if at all possible. It would not likely have to be re-done anytime in the foreseeable future and therefore well worth the extra cost.
 
Re: Oklahoma City area PB recs and can this even be done?

Thanks, Patrick. I will need to look back at some of the quartz vs. plaster threads to remember all the pros and cons. When I talked to PB about it, he said that you have to be up close with the surface to get the benefit of the "flecks" of quartz, and while the quartz is harder, he didn't hesitate to think we would get good longevity out of a plaster finish because he got all the details about our chemistry routine - whether he wanted to hear them or not (and he was very impressed to see our Taylor K-2006, ha!)
 

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