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Thread: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

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    Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    Ok, sorry for the silly pun.

    Anyway, 16x32 inground, vinyl-lined pool, Raypak 266 NG, Rainbow 320, that is used for 1st half of summer, Liquid Chlorine once CYA rises, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, 1.5" plumbing, Hayward S244 300lb sand filter (Zeolite), no water features or anything else...pretty simple. Filter pressure is always around 18psi, rarely backwash, pool not really heavily used but always open. It's all about 'atmosphere', donthca know?

    Current Pump is 1HP, 1.25 SF Challenger that has been running nicely for 18 years now. Runs generally 6hr on, 6hr off and all is well. Not sure why, but I think I'd like to run a pump 24hrs a day at a lower, quieter speed, well, just because. If I went to a 2 speed pump, would the lower speed be enough to keep the heater/chlorinator/future Auto Pilot salt generator happy, flow-wise?

    The Challenger has been a good, reliable pump for 18 years now but methinks it's not exactly 'efficient' and well, it's certainly not the quietest pump out there. I always kinda thought it was kinda overkill for our simple little watering hole, not sure why. Any thoughts? Guess I could just go get a 1hp, 2-speed SuperPump for about $400 and see how that does. I see many pumps/motors now rated for 'Standard efficiency' as well as 'Energy Efficient'; is there really that much of a difference? I don't mind a higher upfront for decreased ongoing costs. I wonder if these newer variable speed pumps have the 'beef' to run for the next 18 years?

    I dunno, maybe I'm just in the mood to buy something new...$1K on a IntelliFlo XF VS??? Now that'd be overkill!
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 HP Challenger 2-spd pump, 300 lb sand filter, Raypak 266K BTU, 45M stenner pumpin' bleach

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    I replaced the motor on my challenger with one of the green ao smith motors and love it. Super quiet and the low speed is plenty.

    If you post up your full motor specs I can make a reccomendation on which motor...

    This one is probably close:
    b2981 or B2981T for the model with the integrated timer.

    http://www.poolsupplyworld.com/Century- ... /B2982.htm

    1.4 amp draw on low!!!! Amazing.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    The link you have is for a 1 HP full rated motor (B2982) but the OP needs the B2981 since it is an up rated motor.

    http://www.poolsupplyworld.com/Century- ... /B2981.htm

    But 18 years is pretty long for a pump. Is the housing still in good condition?

    Does the Challenger run both the pool and spa or does the spa have a different pump?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    The link you have is for a 1 HP full rated motor (B2982) but the OP needs the B2981 since it is an up rated motor.

    http://www.poolsupplyworld.com/Century- ... /B2981.htm

    But 18 years is pretty long for a pump. Is the housing still in good condition?

    Does the Challenger run both the pool and spa or does the spa have a different pump?
    No spa, so the Challenger is just pushing water around the pool; the above motor indicates 115V, pump currently wired 220V. Can get the above motor for $298, add a seal...maybe worth it just for fun. Pump housing seems in good condition, never put anything into the pump/motor in the whole time I've had it. Heck, I got 17 years outta my heater before I had to replace it this year.

    Now watch me go home today to find a fried pump just because I mentioned it.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 HP Challenger 2-spd pump, 300 lb sand filter, Raypak 266K BTU, 45M stenner pumpin' bleach

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    i didn't see the service factor listed in the original post (oops)

    Given 230v the b2980 would be the way to go. Perfect replacement match for your existing motor.

    Don't forget to order the seal kit to go with it.

    Love that 1 amp draw on low. Your ROI will be crazy fast.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    Thanks for the info...think I'll do it.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 HP Challenger 2-spd pump, 300 lb sand filter, Raypak 266K BTU, 45M stenner pumpin' bleach

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    Now on to the age-old question: With this motor, will it be a simple wiring deal considering my 220V Intermatic timer wires going to pump are currently 2 hot, 1 ground.

    Current one speed Challenger is wired as such.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 HP Challenger 2-spd pump, 300 lb sand filter, Raypak 266K BTU, 45M stenner pumpin' bleach

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    Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    Quote Originally Posted by budgetplan1
    Now on to the age-old question: With this motor, will it be a simple wiring deal considering my 220V Intermatic timer wires going to pump are currently 2 hot, 1 ground.

    Current one speed Challenger is wired as such.
    The challenge is the extra hot leg. At a high level you have three options:
    1. Replace the existing timer with a 2 speed timer and run the extra wire to switch from high to low.
    2. Get the 2980t with an integrated timer and leave the old timer in the ON position.
    3. Add a three way switch ( single pole dual throw) on the leg that selects high or low with the extra leg run from it.

    Number 2 is probably the easiest and cheapest. No extra wires to run and it should bolt right up.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    Finally got around to putting the motor in yesterday; it's barely audible on low speed so that's REALLY nice. Would be nice if the integrated timer would allow multiple on/off/speed events during a day but oh well. Used to run the one speed pump 6hr on, 6hr off each day for a total runtime of 12hr a day and things went well. Right now timer on new motor is 6hr on hi, 18hr on low...I just always like water circulating for some reason. Electricity cost here is $0.07/kWh so savings will not be tremendous but at least i can keep water circulating w/ nearly no noise. All in all, a worthwhile excercise. Now if I could just determine why new Raypak 266btu digital pool heater sounds like a haunted castle when it fires up...but that's another thread.

    Thanks to all for the info
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 HP Challenger 2-spd pump, 300 lb sand filter, Raypak 266K BTU, 45M stenner pumpin' bleach

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    That is a ton of on high runtime, the pool only needs low for circulation. Do you have a bunch of water features?


    I only run high when the Polaris and booster are running.

    Glad to hear it is working for you!
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    Quote Originally Posted by karmabiker
    That is a ton of on high runtime, the pool only needs low for circulation. Do you have a bunch of water features?


    I only run high when the Polaris and booster are running.

    Glad to hear it is working for you!
    No water features of any kind. Running on low 24/7 may be better except for vac'g I guess. After 16 years on one speed (high) I guess I'm just conditioned to it.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 HP Challenger 2-spd pump, 300 lb sand filter, Raypak 266K BTU, 45M stenner pumpin' bleach

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    Most filtered pool EVER!

    My total runtime is 7 hours 30 min of that is on high while the Polaris runs. I figure the daily cost at 10 cents kwh is around a buck.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    Post script to the story, I think my calculations are correct:

    OLD: Challenger 1.25SF single speed pump
    NEW: Same wet end, New B2980T motor

    Old Single Speed pump motor cost me $1.44 per day to run it a total of 12hrs a day (6 on, 6 off).
    New motor, running 24hrs a day (4 on high, 20 on low) will cost me $0.75 a day.

    Based on running season of perhaps 90 or so days, old motor cost me $129.60 per season, new motor will cost me $67.50, essentially half the cost of old motor. This is based on my electrical rate of 7.36 center per KWh. New motor cost me about $350 as it has an integral timer on it (can’t run a two-speed motor with my current on/off timer…it is essentially always ‘on’ in the timer box now and integrated pump timer controls hi/low periods) so it will pay for itself, in a monetary sense, in about 5 seasons. I could cut the cost even further by running the motor less than 24hrs (12hrs with a mix of hi/lo would likely be adequate) cutting the costs even further.

    Further benefits to me personally is now I can circulate water 24hrs a day (overkill, but I just like to do that) and, on low speed, the pump is nearly completely silent; just a very low hum.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 HP Challenger 2-spd pump, 300 lb sand filter, Raypak 266K BTU, 45M stenner pumpin' bleach

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    Re: Pumping has always been a Challenge(r)...

    that is a ton of runtime.

    Glad it worked out.

    9 hours on low here I quit running the polaris except when needed.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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