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Thread: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need help!

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    Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need help!

    Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need help!
    I know, surprising, right? lol.

    Ok, I have a 20x40 estimated 38k gal or more In Ground Vinyl lined pool.
    I don't know the exact age but believe it was built in 1985.
    Liner was replaced somewhere between 2004-2006.
    Liner did not appear to be leaking when last filled.
    Problems developed with the filtration system at the end of last season that delayed opening this season due to finances.
    Further, over the winter the cover had collapsed into the pool and by the time it was noticed nearly all water had been pumped from the pool.

    The filtration system issues have been repaired -1 remaining part which arrives on Monday.

    The liner is still extremely flexible and shows no signs or being hard or brittle.

    Problem:
    Water under the liner in the deep end of the pool prevent me from simply sticking a ShopVac down the liner side and sucking the air out prior to filling. (otherwise this would appear to work).
    Additional noted issue, the bottom/main drain, still screwed to the liner appears to be lifted in one of the many creases that are in the deep end due to the water under the liner.

    I can get to the bottom/main drain. The pool is for all intents empty except a few small puddles.

    If it was not for the issues with the wrinkles/creases due to water under the deep end I am confident that the ShopVac could be used to suck the air out and pull the liner into the walls prior to refill, just as I'd seen for new liner installs.
    I even did a test run of the which worked rather well and had most of the shallow end in place and even some of the deep end.

    My concerns are:
    1). The fact the bottom/main drain appears at an angle lifted along one of the crease/wrinkles.
    2). How to get the water from under the liner and seat the deep end properly while removing the Wrinkles/creases.

    I've been searching videos on Youtube, but they almost exclusively deal with liner replacements. I do not believe a new liner is needed as this was a problem caused by other issues and not a leak in the liner itself.

    Advice please!
    Called the place that did the pool build and liner replace according to prior home owner.
    They want $700+ to come drain the water from under the liner and then they say they won't guarantee against tearing while they re-stretch it due to being more than 3 years old. Got a similar statement but a $900+ quote from another local place.
    At this point I need to find a way to do it myself if possible as I can't afford those easily. Especially given in the end if they tear it I'd be stuck paying for a new liner as well (not a big incentive for care in handling). At least in the worst case if I tear it, then I needed a new liner anyway.

    Thanks,
    Kel

    Edits for typos, other minor corrections, add more info.
    20x40 38Kgal, IG Vinyl, Hayward Self-Priming SuperPump 1.5 HP, DE6020 Filter, Hayward SuperFlo Valve, Hayward In-Line Chlorine Feeder.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    Sorry can't help on this one, but I do want to welcome you to the board
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    Thanks for the welcome Isaac.

    No worries on the help, I know my request is a bit out of the norm.

    Just hoping someone has some suggestions. If not I'll be trying a few things I've though about on my own anyway.
    As far as I've been able to determine there is no pump point to attach to for pulling the water out from under since the pool was built on a slight (negligible really) hill.
    One thought I had was just getting some extensions for the ShopVac so it would reach low enough while behind the liner to grab the water. This would be done without the duct tape sealing that one would do for pulling air out. Also that would be much more in the deep end than the suggested middle of the pool that I'd seen and tested for pulling the air out. Just to pull the water out.

    Still hoping for ideas though for anyone else who'd like to chime in.

    Thanks again,
    Kel
    20x40 38Kgal, IG Vinyl, Hayward Self-Priming SuperPump 1.5 HP, DE6020 Filter, Hayward SuperFlo Valve, Hayward In-Line Chlorine Feeder.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    I too am not sure what to recommend. The tilted main drain is troubling as you may not know if the pipe have broken.

    I think you can either dig a big hole next to the pool and try to pump the groundwater away from the pool or try to start filling it as is and the water behind the liner should be pushed out ... although there is no telling how well the liner would get seated into place.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    Sounds like you need a well point as Jason mentioned. I've heard of people doing this and it working.

    Welcome to TFP.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    Wow, thanks for all the greetings.

    'Well point' that was the term I was looking for. The pool does not have a well point currently.

    Jason and Casey, thanks for the tip about just creating one next to the pool. I had read about ones that had been installed as part of the pool build but not one next to the pool added later as you suggest but it does make logical sense that if one were to dig down even next to the pool to below that level and pump the water away that should help.

    Seems like I've got a bit of work this weekend that is worth trying out.

    Always watching/listening for more suggestions an I will update this thread if/as things get worked on for the pool.

    I know the titled main drain appears worrisome, but on a positive note a quick flow test shows it does appear to still be functional to the pump and drain system. Starting the pump with the valve set to waste did pull some of the water out (not that there was much in the pool, as I said small puddles). I was also able to put a hose in where the basket for the pump is and, with the hose on, I was able to cause water to flow backwards through the pipe and out the main/bottom drain into the pool liner.

    I obviously can't test the full filtration system repairs (practically replaced everything topside) till the last part arrives and there is water in the pool again.

    Thanks again,
    Kel
    20x40 38Kgal, IG Vinyl, Hayward Self-Priming SuperPump 1.5 HP, DE6020 Filter, Hayward SuperFlo Valve, Hayward In-Line Chlorine Feeder.

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    Let us know how things turn out for you!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    So due to family functions, etc I did not get to work on the pool over the weekend.
    Not a major loss as with all the rain, even the woods nearby still has standing water at a height that would be half-way up the deep end of the pool (thus making creating a nearby well point not as feasible a task with so much standing water).

    We did get some thunderstorms last night and the wrinkles/creases in the pool deep end smoothed some as the water filled in.

    So, I have reconnected the ShopVac to the duct taped side where I dropped the hose already. Air pulled out, pool was looking p[pretty good except for the floating/wrinkled/creases in the deep end.

    Still filling at the moment but it looks pretty good, been sloshing the deep-end around and it seems to be mostly seating into place so far.

    All the walls, and the shallow end all appear to have had the creases/wrinkles sucked out and as water has been filling the deep end I've been smoothing the bottom and so far so good.

    I hope for continued success on this, if it all goes well I could have the pool running soon and no more money out the pocket this year at least.

    Thanks again,
    Kel
    20x40 38Kgal, IG Vinyl, Hayward Self-Priming SuperPump 1.5 HP, DE6020 Filter, Hayward SuperFlo Valve, Hayward In-Line Chlorine Feeder.

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    Well, had another setback. All seemed to be going well last yesterday/last night.
    I went out to check the pool around 2am, and suction appears to have been lost even though the vac was still going. Had to shut down the hose and vac as I couldn't see much in the dark.
    Not looking forward to going out there today.

    Kel
    20x40 38Kgal, IG Vinyl, Hayward Self-Priming SuperPump 1.5 HP, DE6020 Filter, Hayward SuperFlo Valve, Hayward In-Line Chlorine Feeder.

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    Sorry, should have updated a few days ago.
    Reason suction was lost, as the liner filled, it pushed some of the water behind the liner within reach of the shopvac hose.
    Shopvac filled with water, then shut down to save itself.

    That actually gave me another idea so I spent most of the next day using the shopvac to pull as much water as p[possible from behind the liner.
    Also bought a small Transfer/Drill pump from the Home Depot and stuck a short 10-12' garden hose down behind the liner to pump the water out as much as possible.

    Kept the ShopVac running the past several days.

    Pool guys came out to look at it today, said everything looks as good as it can be at this point/age, etc.
    Didn't charge me a thing and said at this point I should start filling again and go for it.

    Happy camper me. Tipped both the guys and was quite happy with the news.

    Thanks again,
    Kel
    20x40 38Kgal, IG Vinyl, Hayward Self-Priming SuperPump 1.5 HP, DE6020 Filter, Hayward SuperFlo Valve, Hayward In-Line Chlorine Feeder.

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    Post pics when it's full! We'd love to see it and all your hard work pay off!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    harleysilo's Avatar
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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    I'd fill it it and deal with wrinkles in the deep end. It can't be good to have your liner exposed to the elements this long.
    18'x43' Sport Pool
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  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    Little update, probably the last on this issue as the pool won't be opened this year.
    Filling had been going OK, but not great, was taking far longer than expected.
    I think I now know why the cover fell into the pool in the first place, liner must have developed a leak.
    Without the water to support the cover at the normal/proper level it would explain the cover falling in.
    Once I got past a certain point in the filling it was barely keeping up with the loss and became visible upon stopping filling.

    Next year then, new liner and a fresh season.
    For now reading, planning, not sure if I am going to go with the same place that did the last liner and the initial pool install for the prior owners just due to the way things have gone thus far.

    C'est la vie.

    Thanks again,
    Kel
    20x40 38Kgal, IG Vinyl, Hayward Self-Priming SuperPump 1.5 HP, DE6020 Filter, Hayward SuperFlo Valve, Hayward In-Line Chlorine Feeder.

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Hello, just joined because I have a problem and need hel

    Never saw this post, but I just want to say welcome to you. You certainly live close to me. I'm right on the Howell/Lakewood border.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
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    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
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