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Thread: Filter install mostly done...

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    Gooserider's Avatar
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    Filter install mostly done...

    As I was looking for advice on parts selection in a previous thread, I thought I'd do an update...

    I ended up getting a Pentair TR60 Clear-Pro tech filter, and a Compupool CPSC 48 SWG from Pool Supply World, which offered the best price of any of the vendors I looked at... I'm quite happy with them, their phone people seemed knowlegable, and I got the products in quite good time.

    One disapointment was that I had been under the impression that the CPSC-48 had a built in timer switch to control the pump along with the SWG. When I got it, I found that it didn't, and when I called Compupool, they said the only units with the built in switch were the ones for above-ground pools. They said the transformer needed in the bigger units didn't leave room in the case for the switch.

    So I ended up getting two digital time switches from Lowes (not a great deal, could have gotten them for less online, but I was in a hurry) along with a LOT of pipe and fittings...

    I got a friend to help with the install, which I think came out VERY nicely - the plumbing is better arranged, and I have both pumps on the equipment deck instead of having the Polaris pump up under the porch. We also got rid of about 6' of extra pipe going to and from the pool on each run. Everything is relatively accessible, and set up so that the various parts can be taken out for service readily if needed. As an added bonus, we even made it all fit in the same enclosure that the old plumbing was in!

    As part of the job I uncovered the pool and dumped in the salt, about 6 bags of chlorine tablets (mostly to use up the existing supply and I know I'll need stabilizer anyway...) and a couple gallons of liquid chlorine. I figure on running the pool filter for a couple of days to try and get the leaf-tea cleaned up a bit, and dissolve the chemistry before I actually turn on the SWG...

    Hope to get some pictures up of the new setup in the next few days.

    One thing that I'm sort of surprised at though, is the filter is showing ZERO pounds of pressure on the brand new guage... It's definitely circulating water through it, but I'd have expected at least a few pounds of pressure, even if it is way oversized for the pool.... (the specs suggest that I ought to have about 2 hours per turnover...)

    Does this sound normal, or am I having a problem?

    ex-Gooserider
    Free-form Inground gunnite pool, Estimated 16-17K gallons. New Pentair TR60 ClearPro 24" sand filter and Compupool CPSC-48 SWG, Hayward SP1607X10 Pump w/ 1HP motor, 1.5" plumbing, Polaris Pressure cleaner w/ booster pump. pool is more than 25 yrs old, less than 35. Not painted, deteriorating tile surround. I am paraplegic, get in/out of pool w/ S.R. SMITH PAL portable pool lift (significantly modified)

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Filter install mostly done...

    Make sure the multiport is on filter and not recirculate!
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Gooserider's Avatar
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    Re: Filter install mostly done...

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Make sure the multiport is on filter and not recirculate!
    I have the handle pointing at "filter" and am definitely getting flow in the skimmer and out the returns, plus I get air then water if I open the air vent valve on top of the filter...

    It has 300 lbs of sand in it by bag count. The specs say it's supposed to use 325lbs, but when we checked the freeboard after 300 lbs, it was where it said it should be, so we didn't add the last half bag.

    After starting the pump up for the first time in recirculate, I did do about a minute of backwashing then about 30 seconds of rinse, before switching to filter... (turning off pump each time before moving handle)

    ex-Gooserider
    Free-form Inground gunnite pool, Estimated 16-17K gallons. New Pentair TR60 ClearPro 24" sand filter and Compupool CPSC-48 SWG, Hayward SP1607X10 Pump w/ 1HP motor, 1.5" plumbing, Polaris Pressure cleaner w/ booster pump. pool is more than 25 yrs old, less than 35. Not painted, deteriorating tile surround. I am paraplegic, get in/out of pool w/ S.R. SMITH PAL portable pool lift (significantly modified)

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    Gooserider's Avatar
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    Re: Filter install mostly done...

    I've been running a few days now, had a few drips, and seemed to be sucking a lot of air in through the skimmer line connection. The filter pressure did climb up to about 12PSI over a few days, so it does seem to be working - I backwashed and it went back down to zero...

    Today my friend came by and we tightened up and added more teflon tape to the threaded connections, and made sure all the unions were tight. It seems to be running a lot better - fewer bubbles in the pump cover, and less gurgling in the filter...

    Tne water is also looking a LOT better - It isn't crystal clear yet, but I can easily see the bottom in the deep end. There are still a pretty good number of leaves in the bottom, but I don't want to put the collection bag on the Polaris bot until the chlorine tabs are disolved - right now it is just running around without the bag in order to act as a mixer, and keep the worst of the sediment suspended so the skimmer can get it...

    I did my first test today,
    OTO - ORANGE - off scale
    Ph - 7.2
    FC -22 (explains orange OTO)
    CC - 0
    TA - 120
    CH - 200
    Borates 30
    CYA - didn't test, lots of undisolved tabs still on the bottom, want to see what they do...

    I don't have a salt test, but the Compupool box says high salt and over 3500 on the display
    Water temp about 73*F

    That puts the CSI at -0.62 which isn't good, but I'm not going to panic about it until the other numbers are a bit more reasonable....

    The only number that really concerns me is the CH, I actually ran that test twice as it's way less than what I usually get...

    Also, as promised a few pictures of the new setup....
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Free-form Inground gunnite pool, Estimated 16-17K gallons. New Pentair TR60 ClearPro 24" sand filter and Compupool CPSC-48 SWG, Hayward SP1607X10 Pump w/ 1HP motor, 1.5" plumbing, Polaris Pressure cleaner w/ booster pump. pool is more than 25 yrs old, less than 35. Not painted, deteriorating tile surround. I am paraplegic, get in/out of pool w/ S.R. SMITH PAL portable pool lift (significantly modified)

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    Gooserider's Avatar
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    Re: Filter install mostly done...

    one last shot...

    [attachment=0:38wecsq0]P1020128.JPG[/attachment:38wecsq0]

    I have several others, including the insides of the sand filter and the Compupool box, but don't want to bore folks unless you really want them...

    Looking at the photo again, I should add that the backwash pipe coming out was temporary, it is now routed back under the porch which is mostly sand filled, and was apparently intended as a sink for the DE filter...

    ex-Gooserider
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Free-form Inground gunnite pool, Estimated 16-17K gallons. New Pentair TR60 ClearPro 24" sand filter and Compupool CPSC-48 SWG, Hayward SP1607X10 Pump w/ 1HP motor, 1.5" plumbing, Polaris Pressure cleaner w/ booster pump. pool is more than 25 yrs old, less than 35. Not painted, deteriorating tile surround. I am paraplegic, get in/out of pool w/ S.R. SMITH PAL portable pool lift (significantly modified)

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    gtemkin's Avatar
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    Re: Filter install mostly done...

    Very nice! I like your sweeps on the new layout rather than the hard 90 elbows.
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Filter install mostly done...

    Did I just read that you have trichlor tabs sitting in the bottom of the pool? That is certainly not good for the plaster and may cause discoloration.

    Also, are those sweeps you used Schedule 40 ... I hope?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Gooserider's Avatar
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    Re: Filter install mostly done...

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Did I just read that you have trichlor tabs sitting in the bottom of the pool? That is certainly not good for the plaster and may cause discoloration.

    Also, are those sweeps you used Schedule 40 ... I hope?
    Yes they are the small 1" tabs that I scattered around while getting the pool open. Discoloration isn't an issue, as the pool isn't painted or given any other fancy finish. Hadn't heard that it would cause any other problems for the plaster. I didn't have a big enough floater to hold them otherwise, and we get way to much tree droppings to put them in the skimmer basket...

    It was the last of a bucket that I purchased before learning better here at TFP, my idea was to use them to bring up the chlorine and CYA levels while getting the SWG going, the pool won't be seeing any more of them once these are gone.

    The sweeps are supposedly only for drains, not pressure, but IMHO that shouldn't be a big issue - the filter is only rated for 50 PSI, and actually seems to be running around 0-10 PSI. Same pump with the DE filter wouldn't go over about 28 PSI, and the run between the pump and filter is the only part that even sees that much pressure...

    The big advantage of the sweeps is that they give MUCH less head loss than the sharp 90's. I forget just where, but I've seen figures saying that a regular 90 has about the same head loss as 10' of pipe, while the sweeps are only equivalent to about 3'... Since my plumbing is all 1.5" and I'd also like to go to a lower power pump eventually, I figure that minimizing the head losses in the system is worth going with the slightly lower rated elbows....

    ex-Gooserider
    Free-form Inground gunnite pool, Estimated 16-17K gallons. New Pentair TR60 ClearPro 24" sand filter and Compupool CPSC-48 SWG, Hayward SP1607X10 Pump w/ 1HP motor, 1.5" plumbing, Polaris Pressure cleaner w/ booster pump. pool is more than 25 yrs old, less than 35. Not painted, deteriorating tile surround. I am paraplegic, get in/out of pool w/ S.R. SMITH PAL portable pool lift (significantly modified)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Filter install mostly done...

    The pucks are very acidic, so they could be etching the plaster ... not just staining it. This is also why you should not put them in the skimmer either.

    That may be true about the sweeps vs. the sharp 90s ... but you could have reduced the head loss even more by just using Sch 40 2" pipe and fittings everywhere you were modifying. Obviously no point in starting over, but could be useful info for someone reading this in the future.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Gooserider's Avatar
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    Re: Filter install mostly done...

    I thought about the 2" option, but I didn't think it would help that much since I still would have had 1.5" going in and out of the pool... Also the main pump has 1.5" inlets and outlets.

    In addition it would have been somewhat more expensive - minorly so for the fittings and pipe, but the multiport was about $40 more for the 2" version, as opposed to the 1.5". Not a huge difference considering the total, but still something I'd need to justify...

    I got curious as to the actual numbers, so I did some Googling, and found the following two charts of interest -

    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/press ... d_404.html - Pressure drop of PVC pipe by size and volume

    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pvc-p ... d_801.html - Equivalent foot loss of fittings

    According to the charts, assuming a 20 GPM flow rate, 1.5" pipe has a loss of 2.6 ft H2O/100 ft pipe and 2" is 0.8 ft H2O/100 ft pipe.

    A long sweep 90 is equivalent to 4' of 1.5" pipe, or 5.7' of 2", while a sharp 90 is equal to 7.5' of 1.5" or 8.6' of 2". Note that the sharp 90 is almost twice the loss of a sweep 90 (It's more than twice in smaller sizes)

    Assuming sharp 90's in 2", 8.6/100 x 0.8 = 0.07' of loss per fitting. The 1.5" sweeps that I used are 4/100x2.6 = 0.104' per fitting...

    T's on the straight through are 2.7' on 1.5" (0.07' loss), and 4.3' on 2" (0.034' loss)

    I count 10 90's in my picture, plus two straight through "T"s (where I have the bypass loop for the SWG cell)

    I have about 10' of pipe that I added.

    I don't have figures for the unions, ball valves, or 45's - so I'm ignoring them...

    So for 1.5" pipe 10x0.104 + 2x0.07 + 0.26 = 1.44' of loss

    for 2" pipe, 10x0.07 + 2x0.034 + .08 = 0.848' of loss

    Or a difference of 0.6' of loss

    My guess is about 50' of 1.5" pipe for the runs to and from the pool, or 1.3' of loss, plus fittings which probably gets it up close to the 100' number.

    That is a big difference in bare number, but I don't really think it's a big deal in practice, since both are less than the loss for the existing pool runs.

    Assuming 100 ft equivalent for the pool runs, I'd have a total of 4.04' of loss with 1.5" or 3.45' with 2", or about a 15% difference, which IMHO isn't enough to justify the added cost difference. The slightly larger fittings would also have made the plumbing setup a bit harder to fit in the way that we did it...

    ex-Gooserider
    Free-form Inground gunnite pool, Estimated 16-17K gallons. New Pentair TR60 ClearPro 24" sand filter and Compupool CPSC-48 SWG, Hayward SP1607X10 Pump w/ 1HP motor, 1.5" plumbing, Polaris Pressure cleaner w/ booster pump. pool is more than 25 yrs old, less than 35. Not painted, deteriorating tile surround. I am paraplegic, get in/out of pool w/ S.R. SMITH PAL portable pool lift (significantly modified)

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