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Thread: Washing soda = cloudy water??? new numbers

  1. #1
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    Washing soda = cloudy water??? new numbers

    Is there a specific way to add the arm & hammer washing soda? I have dissolved the first 55oz in a 5 gallon bucket of water in my house. I went to just pour in a pitcher of it to the pool to see what happens and it makes this HUGE white cloud that slowly spreads at the bottom of the pool. Kinda awesome looking! LOL I'm scared to pour the rest of it in though...I need to pour in 135oz of washing soda from the calculator, but won't it make my water look like milk??? Will it clear up or take days to do so? I figured I better come post my question here before I screw something up.
    Julie

    Atlantic Pool Products "Prestige" metal wall pool 18' x 48" round
    vinyl liner
    Hayward Power Flo pump
    Hayward Perflex DE Filter Model EC50AC

  2. #2
    Administrator JasonLion's Avatar
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    I would help a great deal if you could post a full set of test results. Cloudiness like that often means that your calcium is too high. If your PH is 7.2 or higher I would hold off on adding the washing soda till you figure out what is going on.

    Normally, the best way to add washing soda is to pre-dissolve it in a bucket and then pour that very slowly into a skimmer with the pump running.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    TFP Admin. Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  3. #3
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    Had to go back to the pool store to get water tested yesterday..so these are yesterdays numbers as I have no test kit here. I ran out of those crappy HTH dippers and my TF100 kit should be here tomorrow or by Thursday for sure according to the tracking number.

    CYA: 0
    Total Chlorine: 3.0
    Free Chlorine: 3.0
    pH: 6.2
    Tot. Alkalinity: 219
    Tot. Hardness: 320
    Copper: 0
    Iron: 0
    Manganese: no
    Quat: 0
    green algae: none
    black algae: none
    mustard algae: no
    slime/mold: no
    salt: n/a

    I don't see anything for calicium..or would that be the hardness? We have well water out here and I KNOW we have calcium in it as we get a lot of lime and calcium buildup on our faucets and shower heads.
    Julie

    Atlantic Pool Products "Prestige" metal wall pool 18' x 48" round
    vinyl liner
    Hayward Power Flo pump
    Hayward Perflex DE Filter Model EC50AC

  4. #4
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    Yes, calcium and Total Hardness are the same thing.

    If you raise your PH, you are going to raise your TA, which is already high.

    Perhaps read this thread on lowering TA

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/sticky.php?s=5341

    And do it in phases to get both numbers in a reasonable range?

    Can you turn your return "up" so that bubbles break the surface, or do you have a spa that you can turn on to make bubbles, or a fountain?

    Aeration may raise your ph, then you can lower it (and the TA) again, together, and then aerate again...etc.

    I'm still a bit of a novice on this subject but hopefully someone else will be along to concur or correct.... good luck
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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  5. #5
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    P.S. you will also need to get some CYA in there....

    One thing at a time, and plenty of P.O.P.

    Everything will be fine, don't get frustrated
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  6. #6
    Administrator JasonLion's Avatar
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    Good thought frustratedpoolmom, aeration will help raise the PH without raising TA. I suggest also using some borax, aeration may take a little while and you don't what the PH quite that low for very long.

    According to those numbers it isn't calcium clouding, which makes me doubt the test results a little. I an very interested in seeing updated numbers when you get the TF-100 test kit.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    TFP Admin. Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  7. #7
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    I don't think I can turn the return up any. Its just the basic pump that came with the Intex pool. Nothing fancy or high powered. I don't have a spa either. Dont really have anything I can put in it to make bubbles either than tossing my kids in and have them fart a lot in it. bwahahahahaa

    Guess I'll wait till I get the test kit in and go from there. HOPEFULLY it will be here tomorrow...crossing fingers. I so want to get in and swim!!!
    Julie

    Atlantic Pool Products "Prestige" metal wall pool 18' x 48" round
    vinyl liner
    Hayward Power Flo pump
    Hayward Perflex DE Filter Model EC50AC

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    Yes, calcium and Total Hardness are the same thing.
    Not really, Total hardness is both calcium AND magnesium hardness and while it is useful for water softeners it is meaningless for pools. It means that your pool store is using test strips since they only can measure total hardness and not calcium hardness, which requires a titration test or a colormetric test.

    The clouding from adding washing soda is not uncommon. Because of the local high pH it produces and the fact that it will raise TA faster than baking soda it can cause clouding even when the calcium is not that high and precipitate calcium carbonate. It is usually transitory.

  9. #9
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    So what do I need to do then? I dissolved 55oz of it in a 5 gallon bucket first..BUT used a 3qt pitcher to dip in it and poured about 3qt's in the pool water. When I saw how it clouded...I didn't dare pour anymore in. The bucket in sitting in my kitchen. I poured a 96oz bottle of bleach in the pool tonite too. Hope the test kit arrives tomorro and I can post a set of numbers for ya'll.
    Julie

    Atlantic Pool Products "Prestige" metal wall pool 18' x 48" round
    vinyl liner
    Hayward Power Flo pump
    Hayward Perflex DE Filter Model EC50AC

  10. #10
    Administrator JasonLion's Avatar
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    You can pour the washing soda/water mixture into the skimmer, which will help mix it into the pool water more quickly than pouring it into the pool. The return jet will probably cloud up for a while, but if the test results are right everything will clear up in 30 minutes or less. It is important to get the PH to at least 7.0. After that we can think about balancing everything else.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    TFP Admin. Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  11. #11
    Senior Member ivyleager's Avatar
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    Question for the chem folks:
    Instead of adding washing soda to increase pH, which frustratedpoolmom said will also raise ALK, can't Julie use pH plus which claims not to raise ALK? Or is pH plus claim to not raise pH an inaccurate statement?
    CaryB
    36 x 18 IG vinyl, 25K, 1 HP pump, sand filter
    1 skimmer, 2 returns, no main drain
    Old school: PoolSolutions test kit

  12. #12
    Administrator JasonLion's Avatar
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    PH Up, PH Plus, PH Increaser, Balance Pak 200, washing soda, and soda ash are all the exact same thing. All of them will increase the TA noticeably.

    Borax would not increase the TA as much and aeration would not increase the TA at all. However, getting PH up to 7.0 should be done right away. We can worry about TA later.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    TFP Admin. Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  13. #13
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    okay, well, I can't really do anything else to it until I get the testing kit. I see at the DHL site that my kit was in Waco Tx last night at 9:40pm...thats 3hrs from me..so hopefully it is on its way for delivery today...even though it says estimated delivery is 6-5-08. And my pool and skimmer hoses are being delivered today too..good thing cause I'm losing water significantly I noticed yesterday from the cracked return hose. I had to add water to the pool two days ago cause the level got down below the return part. Duct tape on a hose does NO GOOD. lolol If the kit comes today, I can post a set of numbers to work with.
    Julie

    Atlantic Pool Products "Prestige" metal wall pool 18' x 48" round
    vinyl liner
    Hayward Power Flo pump
    Hayward Perflex DE Filter Model EC50AC

  14. #14
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    Just got the test kit!!! Thank You!!!!

    Here are my numbers..I HOPE I did them right.

    FC 4
    CC 0
    TC 0
    pH 7.5-7.8
    TA 400
    CH 500
    CYA 0-15 (the tube was filled to the top, so I figured that was a 15..I could still barely see the black dot)
    Julie

    Atlantic Pool Products "Prestige" metal wall pool 18' x 48" round
    vinyl liner
    Hayward Power Flo pump
    Hayward Perflex DE Filter Model EC50AC

  15. #15
    Administrator JasonLion's Avatar
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    CH is high, but TA is through the roof. You need to get the PH down a little, to between 7.0 and 7.2, soon to prevent calcium scaling. Then you are going to need to work on lowering those levels. You should test your fill water for TA and CH to see how much water replacement will help. That will also help you get practice with the test kit.

    You can probably lower both TA and CH by replacing water, which might be the best idea to start. You are also going to need to get the TA down further, see this article for detailed instructions.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    TFP Admin. Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  16. #16
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    Thank you...I will do the water replacement tomorrow. Not enough daylight left today to start draining and refilling. All the other numbers look okay though? Besides the TA, CH and pH?
    Julie

    Atlantic Pool Products "Prestige" metal wall pool 18' x 48" round
    vinyl liner
    Hayward Power Flo pump
    Hayward Perflex DE Filter Model EC50AC

  17. #17
    Administrator JasonLion's Avatar
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    You should raise CYA to between 30 and 50.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    TFP Admin. Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  18. #18
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    Julie, You also didn't mention what type of pool do you have, how big, what type of pump, filter, etc. Is it new, etc?
    36,000 gallon IG Gunite (40 x 20), 1.5 HP Hayward pump, Pentair Nautilus NS-48 DE filter, 2 skimmers, 12 - (2 x 20) Fafco Solar Panels (Goldline controller not hooked up yet), Hayward Swimpure Plus SWG, Blue Pearl Robot cleaner. New Dr. Wellness X-12 standalone Lifestyle Spa.

  19. #19
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    Guess I just need to put it in my siggy. LOL We have one of those Intex metal frame pools, vinyl liner, 15' x 42" round. Standard pump/filter that comes with the pool when you buy it..from their website, it says it filters 800 gph. This is our second summer with it.
    Julie

    Atlantic Pool Products "Prestige" metal wall pool 18' x 48" round
    vinyl liner
    Hayward Power Flo pump
    Hayward Perflex DE Filter Model EC50AC

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by julie492
    Just got the test kit!!! Thank You!!!!

    Here are my numbers..I HOPE I did them right.
    CH 500
    THIS is why your water clouded when you added washing soda. (baking soda will also cloud with calcium this high! Best bet is to use borax to raise the pH or add the washing soda by dissolving a little at a time in a big bucket of water and 'walking' it around the pool (pour a little bit at a time as you walk around the pool so there is not a large concentration in any one area).

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