Pool clean up - 3 weeks in and stalled

[Camman]

Well, last year I found this forum and you guys helped me out immensely to get my pool from green to water that everyone we had over raved about how sparkling it was.

Fast forward to August of last year, baby was born, came back from hospital several days later and the pool was a green swamp again. Not enough time with the newborn so the pool was neglected, not used again, and.... eeek... not closed over the winter.

So, early this spring I get to work hauling piles of dead leaves, insects, sticks, etc. out of the pool water. I start up the pump, water spraying everywhere, I'm an idiot and my lack of pool closure resulted in the valve on my sand filter being ruined, sight glass shattered, and last year I was having problems with the pump, so I say okay I'm gonna just buy a new filter and pump and not mess with this. Buy a new pump and filter (Hayward Easy-Clear 40 sq. ft cartridge w/ 1HP Power FLO LX pump), have some problems but finally get it working.

SO - for the past 3 weeks I have been adding bleach, testing, adding more bleach, trying to make sure I've fished everything out of the pool, adding more bleach. The pool has improved a bit but it is still extremely cloudy and has a very slight tinge of green.

I nearly ran out of the DPD titratent (sp?) and CYA reagent so luckily that just arrived this morning from TFTestKits (ordered Wednesday night, arrived today, awesome turnaround!) so now I am all set to continue my eternal struggle with the pool.

My latest results have shown that the CC continues to drop but that the pool is still consuming a lot of FC.

One of the problems I have is I thought I had very low CYA so I bought some stablizer, added 2 lbs, tested a week later and now it is at least registering but just barely (the dot dissapears at the VERY top of the tube), is this OK during the shock process? Should I assume a CYA level of 20ish at the top of the tube like that?

I have been trying to hold the shock level at around 15-16ppm FC. Today I have finally had a day to continuously test and I have been testing and adding a bottle of 8.25% and when I test about an hour later the level is at about 16ppm. CC has been registering between 0 and .5 ppm

My latest results are as follows:

FC 14ppm
CC .5ppm
pH 8+ (I tried to correct this but hadn't yet read that the test is unreliable during shock process so I am going to stop adding borax/MA)
CYA 20 ? (dot dissapears at very top of test tube)
TA 90 ppm
CH 90

Questions are - should I assume 20ppm CYA, and can I leave this alone until I am done shocking? I am trying to follow the CYA/Chlorine chart but the fact that the reading is
super low left me wondering what my shock level should be.

Is the water cloudiness a result of the pool still consuming chlorine? I have been cleaning the cartridge filter at least once a day and sometime more than once to make sure the filtering is working as it should.

My thoughts are that I haven't been adding enough bleach, but, it also seems that with such a low CYA the shock level of 15-16ppm should be more than adequate.

Your help is greatly appreciated, I've been beating myself up with all the problems I've had trying to open the pool up (that'll teach me to not close properly) and the wife
just this morning pulled out the dreaded "Let's bring a sample to the pool store" !! so I am trying to make enough progress to fend that off


[attachment=0:3jggv4xv]cloudpoolresized.JPG[/attachment:3jggv4xv]

 

[Richard320]

Just a guess... but I'll bet you're one of those luck few who had his CYA convert to ammonia over the winter. First you need to burn through a bunch of bleach to neutralize the ammonia, and then the actual shock process begins. If it's finally giving you some FC readings, you might have had a breakthrough.

If CYA goes to the top, assume it's 20 and add 10 more. (psst, 2 lbs of dichlor shock will do it and reduce the amount of jugs you carry Each pound of diclor will raise FC 5.6 and CYA 5.1) If it still reads 20 in about 3 days add another 10.

 

[girlgeekFL]

I feel your pain. We just passed the 3 week point last week but in the last few days, upping our chlorine helped considerably and now the cloudiness is almost gone! Hope yours clears up soon.

 

[JasonLion]

Have you done an overnight FC loss test? That will tell you if it is an algae problem or a broken filter problem. If you lose more than 1 ppm of chlorine you haven't killed the algae. If you don't lose anything there must be something wrong with your filter.

 

[orcldba]

Also, if you are NEEDING to add CYA (stabilizer), and have higher
PH, and add chlorine you CAN use some tricolor 'shock'.
That does add CYA, is acidic, and does add chlorine. Just make
Sure you done use it too much and over-shoot the CYA
Level.

If you are 'stuck' it usually because the shock level isn't
Quite high enough and/or the chlorine is burning off due
To low CYA levels.
We had ammonia this year, no CYA, and it took 2.7 times
The chlorine it would have normally taken to have the pool
Ready. It's finally "sparkling clear", except for the junk that
Blew in due to storms... Vaccum, brush, & shock tonight!

 

[Camman]

Thanks for the help everyone. I think I have not had the shock level high enough so I am hoping I will see improvement after bumping up the FC level. It seems like CC has been very low to non-existent the last 2 days or so.

I have not done the Overnight FC loss test yet, I will do that tonight to hopefully rule out any problems with the new filter. I added more bleach this afternoon after testing but the level is now around 22ppm FC now, I hope I am not getting into any danger zone given a CYA of around 20. I will not add any more tonight but I am going to keep testing.

Is there any difference between trichlor shock and the trichlor pucks? Given the low CYA I was going to throw in a few trichlor pucks in the skimmer basket to add some additional chlorine and bring the CYA up a bit, that is what I can get locally (the HTH pucks at Walmart) but I checked and the only shock packs they had were regular cal-hypo and their hth "super shock" which seemed to be cal-hypo with a bunch of other stuff like algecides or something so I didn't want to get that.

I also think it may be time to hit the recycling center

[attachment=0:22kg24io]bleach.JPG[/attachment:22kg24io]

 

[SkyKid]

Don't put the pucks in the skimmer
Put them in a floater

Butterfly says
You're done shocking when:
1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

 

[Camman]

Don't put the pucks in the skimmer
Put them in a floater

Butterfly says
You're done shocking when:
1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

Good call on that, I had forgotten. Put them into the floater and tossed it in, hopefully that will bring up the CYA a bit with the added benefit of some additional chlorine.

I just did my night reading on the pool for the overnight FC loss test. About 1 hr 30 mins between tests and FC dropped from 17 to 16.5 so I suspect there is still some live algae/other organic matter in the pool, we'll see how much I lose overnight...

So when cleaning up a large mess like this, does the chlorine loss just generally start to slow down as you get everything burned out during shocking?


My big concern is that there is likely a lot of debris I missed on the bottom of the pool, I got as much as I could doing blind scooping but I'm sure there is more, it seems like from everything I read on different "algae clean up" threads the advice has been; clean up what you can, the shock process will take care of it until the pool is clear enough to see what you are doing. So that is the approach I have taken, I guess I will just keep on trucking and hold the shock level and hope the cloudiness starts to break soon! Pretty short season up here in New Hampshire so I gotta whip this thing into shape while I can!

 

[Camman]

Well the overnight results are in - lost 4ppm overnight (16.5 to 12.5ppm FC), so looks like I am not done shocking, I was just surprised it was taking so long. Perhaps I need to hit the pool hard with the vacuum today and even though I can't see so maybe I can get some more unseen matter on the bottom.

 

[duraleigh]

So when cleaning up a large mess like this, does the chlorine loss just generally start to slow down as you get everything burned out during shocking?

Exactly. Keep the faith, it sounds like you are closing in on a clear pool.

 

[SkyKid]

Is your ladder in the pool?
If it is remove it and clean it

When I lived in NH we never had a pool because of the short summers
So I understand why you want it cleared asap
Just open up some POP(pool owner patience) and let the chlorine do it's job

 

[Camman]

Is your ladder in the pool?
If it is remove it and clean it

When I lived in NH we never had a pool because of the short summers
So I understand why you want it cleared asap
Just open up some POP(pool owner patience) and let the chlorine do it's job

Yes the ladder is out of the pool, I'm going to give it a thorough cleaning before putting it back in. FC dropped to 7ppm while I was at work today, just cleaned up the filter and brought it back up to shock level. This sounds strange but the water "feels" better now, like, it feels very smooth like it normally does when it is clean. I think it also looks maybe very slightly improved from yesterday. Also on a plus note, running a net and brush along the sides and bottom are no longer generating "clouds" of dead algae and other particles so I think most of that stuff is finally making it's way to the filter.

I also added just a bit more CYA to a sock and threw it in front of the return. Still registering very low like less than 20 so I want to try to slowly bump that up to 30.

Just gotta keep using my POP and keep on keepin on, hoping for a breakthrough this week!

Thanks again for all the help and encouragement!

 

[wmorge]

3 weeks here too today. I can now see the bottom step through the cloudiness. I'm loosing the POP! LOL I am going to add some DE to my filter but not sure what to get.. I'm hoping the pool will be ready by next weekend. Good Luck!!

 

[Camman]

Does anybody have some advice for cleaning up a mess like this with a cartridge filter?

As I mentioned I switch from sand to a cartridge filter due to the damage over the winter but it seems like the flow is constantly being reduced but the pressure does not change.

Clean, the filter runs at about 18-19psi. I put the cartridge in, it runs over night, by morning there is hardly any flow coming from the return, when I check the pressure gauge it is still in the same range, MAYBE 20 psi but never any higher so not the 25% increase people are saying is when it should be cleaned.

Normally I have time when I get home from work, take the thing apart, clean off the pleats, put it back, get the thing running and then by the time I go to bed the flow has reduced quite a bit and by morning there is barely any flow coming from the return.

The cartridge filter/pump combo I bought (in signature) was rated for "24,000 gallon turnover in 8 hours" so I figured it was more than adequate for my approx. 12,000 gallon pool. It has been running 24/7 for 3 weeks (yikes when I get that electric bill) to try to clean up this mess but I keep reading where people are saying the "cloudiness" is a byproduct of filtration, so, I am wondering if it is just getting clogged constantly because there are a lot of suspended particles or if the filter is too small for my pool or what the deal is.

Unfortunately I only normally have time to clean it once a day after work but over the weekend I was cleaning it 3-4 times/day. Maybe this is expected with a cartridge filter but this is my first time using one so my first experience with the cartridge is during this "clean up" and maybe this constant cleaning will not be normal.

 

[DebbieO]

In your first post you stated that you purchased a 40 sq ft cart filter. Is that correct? If so, it seems like quite a small filter for your pool. I'm certainly am no equipment expert but I think a bigger filter would serve you much better. The pool store sold me my first cart filter saying it was PLENTY big enough for my pool. It was a 50 sq. filter. When I started lurking this site I realized my filter was WAY undersized for my pool. I went to a 150 sq and it serves me well. If I had a higher load on my pool I probably would have spent the extra $$ on a 200 sq.

When all the cottons & helicopters are done I coat my filter with Purifiber to polish up the water.

 

[Camman]

In your first post you stated that you purchased a 40 sq ft cart filter. Is that correct? If so, it seems like quite a small filter for your pool. I'm certainly am no equipment expert but I think a bigger filter would serve you much better. The pool store sold me my first cart filter saying it was PLENTY big enough for my pool. It was a 50 sq. filter. When I started lurking this site I realized my filter was WAY undersized for my pool. I went to a 150 sq and it serves me well. If I had a higher load on my pool I probably would have spent the extra $$ on a 200 sq.

When all the cottons & helicopters are done I coat my filter with Purifiber to polish up the water.

After doing some searching around here... I am starting to get that impression as well.... I wish I had spent a little more and gotten a larger filter, but I read the "easily handles a 24 foot above ground pool" on the Hayward websites and the positive reviews on Amazon and now I am kind of stuck because I can't drop more cash and start over yet again (this filter is not even a month old yet), I guess I should have read around on TFP first but there were so many positive reviews on the filter saying they were working well with above ground pools even larger than mine, I have been hoping recently that it is just because there was so much algae that the filter size would be OK once I got everything cleaned up

 

[Camman]

So it's about a week later, and much has changed. Upgraded from the 40 sq ft Easy Clear to a 150 sq ft Xstream CC1500, ran for 3 days straight with no change. Chlorine level is holding, everything is balanced, water feels great, but the cloudiness persists.

Its now been about 4 weeks and I have been holding the pool at shock level for the last 3, everything looks good chemistry wise.

In desperation I searched around here and looked for advice and saw some recommending that clarifier can help. I added some Sunday night, a few hours after adding there was all kinds of white little white "chunks" floating around in the pool; I have no idea if its dead algae or calcium (seems unlikely given my CH numbers throughout all of this being around 80-90), so the next day the chunks were gone, the pool was marginally better, maybe 15% clearer, I could see down to the return now and I cleared out the cartridge which was full of junk. I added more clarifier yesterday but I didn't notice any huge difference this morning, I'll give it a closer inspection when I get home today.

I am just stumped and my short summer is starting to slip away. Some people at work said I should've gone to DE and that I probably have some problems with metals in the water since the chemistry is fine.

Is this true? Is there some other test for metal content in my water I should do?

My latest numbers;
Ph 7.2
FC 11
CC 0
TA 80
CH 90
CYA 20

 

[DebbieO]

I use Purifiber in my cart. It might be worth a try for you. It's cellulose.

 

[wmorge]

Seems like we are neck in neck on clarity .. 4 weeks here too.. I am trying the D.E. Last night and today I put in a totally of 1 cup . It helped a little.. not confident that I am doing it right so haven't put any more in. I've past my OCLT for 3 nights so I have been letting my chlorine drop down during the day for the past week to swim. maybe why It's taking so long to clear..but with Indiana summers.. I'm going to enjoy the fruits of my labor before I run out of summer : ) .even if it's not quite right.

 

[Camman]

I'm with you wmorge, being that the chemistry is looking good, I am passing the OCLT and chlorine is holding I think I'm going to assume it is okay to swim in and continue work on the clarity because I have about 2 months of swim time remaining and I've missed out on a bunch of 90 degree + days!

Quick question about adding Purifiber or DE to a cartridge filter; I do not have access to the top of my skimmer because of the way the deck is built so I only have side access to the skimmer from the pool, in that case how do you add purifiber or DE without spilling it all into the pool?

Also, is purifiber only available online or is there some local pool places like Leslie's that carry it?