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Thread: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    Looks like I just managed t kill another pump (Hayward Super Pump 1.5 hp single speed) due to inlet clogging.
    I forgot the bizarre tree needles we get here, and just let the (shock) run overnight.
    Next morning, lots of waves in the pool.

    The pump basket was plugged around the inlet port, blocking the water flow. Cleaning and attempting to re-start produced the infamous "pulse" behavior - the water in the basket (yes, bleed valve open) would begin to rise, then fall back, then rise, then fall...

    If you were to split a flat toothpick down the middle and then glue the halves together at a 15 degree angle at on end, you'd have an approximation of these things - they go through the skinner - its basket was completely empty. The finer openings in the pump basket catch them.
    Short of cleaning the pump every 3 hours, any ideas? The idea of putting the filter BEFORE the pump has occurred to me - that is the level of desperation.
    Aside from blowing $1000 on the state-of-the-art pump (to get a thermal trip?),
    any ideas?

    As a frame of reference, the only stuff which will trap them 100% is window screening.

    Does anyone make a filter which is designed to sit between the skimmer and the pump?

    I am not above the truck-rope-and-blue-tarp level of problem solving - at least the equipment is far from the pool
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    Why not use the skimmer basket liners they sell?

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    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    They make skimmer basket liners that filter really tiny debris.

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    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    Yeah, I just saw skimmer basket socks mentioned in another thread (Leslie's doesn't seem to carry much- maybe why I've never heard of them before.
    Read first, then post.. read first, then post... read fir...
    At least it would take longer to plug an entire skimmer basket than a 2"x3" patch of a pump basket.

    For those facing needles and other particularly nasty obstructions: how long to clog the sock vs the pump basket?

    Thanks to all!
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    Do you have a main drain?

    Reference time: no way to know without trying it at your pool. Conditions vary too much.

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    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    Yes, there is a floor drain - this is an oddball with a single suction line from the skimmer to the pump - the drain is plumbed to the bottom of the skimmer, so a blocked skimmer would not be a problem - it could still draw from the floor - no valves involved (this also solves the need for a second drain).

    I guess I'll put "Skimmer Socks" right under "replacement pump".

    I may luck out on this one - I replaced the pump before realizing the problem was a crapped-out filter cart - I may have pulled a perfectly good pump - luckily, I kept it. Not its plumbing, but that's cheap.
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    And, to check the obvious...

    This "surging" action I'm seeing when trying to start the pump Does mean the pump (or at least the motor) is shot, correct?

    There is nothing too large or too obvious that this boy can't miss...
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    If the motor is spinning it is not shot.

    Sounds more like it is struggling to prime. My guess is the impeller is just clogged up with all the pine needles. Pull the motor off and inspect the impeller.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    If the motor is spinning it is not shot.

    Sounds more like it is struggling to prime. My guess is the impeller is just clogged up with all the pine needles. Pull the motor off and inspect the impeller.
    X2

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    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    Yeah. Probably a clogged impeller. Pine needles can slip right through the holes on a basket.

    A knee-high nylon works well as a skimmer sock.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Yeah. Probably a clogged impeller. Pine needles can slip right through the holes on a basket.

    A knee-high nylon works well as a skimmer sock.
    Can a sock be used on the pump basket?

    Sent via Tapatalk...
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Before I knew better...

    My method of seeing if the pump was working was to remove the filter cover & cart - I could see the geyser from across the yard.
    After I let it run dry, the first symptom I noticed was the geyser - it used to be a solid 10'. Then it started to vary between 7 and 10.
    Then it plain died.
    This is why I thought (plus the 19 year old "expert" at Leslie's considered opinion) the surge was indicative of eminent death.
    I made half-hearted effort to stick a finger into the pump cavity, but my reach was pathetic.

    At least this time, the pump is on unions.

    And no more glued joints - I made at least 1 joint of either wrong length or wrong orientation for each I got right,

    For knee-high's: is there a re-enforced toe and/or heel which would need careful orientation? Otherwise, a great idea!
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    Have you pulled the motor to check the impeller? You do not have to remove the plumbing from the pump.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    Sorry - I have a very bad back, and would like to have the unit on the bench, rather than trying to work in cramped quarters at ground level. If I had invested in a good cannon plug, this would be a snap to pull.
    It's also 90 degree F. these days, so it may be a couple before I get back to it
    I'll probably know next weekend.
    Thanks again for the help - nice to know I don't have to mess with de-install.
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    I've seen people write good things on here about the Pool Skim.
    POOL: Intex ultra new in 2014 (32 x 16 x 52) (seasonal; on concrete pad covered with 1.5" extruded or whatever foam insulation sheets - ugly, but comfy); added a through-wall skimmer; I add salt for feel. EQUIPMENT: Pentair SuperFlo pump (1HP, 2SPD); Pentair cartridge filter (200 sq. ft); Pentair MasterTemp natural gas heater (400,000 btu) Climate/Location: Eastern Nebraska

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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Yeah. Probably a clogged impeller. Pine needles can slip right through the holes on a basket.

    A knee-high nylon works well as a skimmer sock.
    Can a sock be used on the pump basket?

    Sent via Tapatalk...
    I wouldn't risk it. Besides, they usually fit tighter.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Fisrt, Sorry - I Know weve been through this topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by crek31
    I've seen people write good things on here about the Pool Skim.
    As I understand that product, it is, essentially, a stand-alone skimmer - maybe if one could be positioned so that 100% of the water getting to the pump basket went through it first, I'd give it a shot, but my first choice is to never allow un-filtered* water to the pump.
    Does that sound strange enough, or should I re-work it?

    * Un-filtered, in this case meaning - never been through sock or screen to remove forked needles.
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    Update - the impeller is clean

    Aside from mus-identifying the pump (it is a Northstar SP4015NS - I got the HP right, though).
    Finally got the thing in and apart - the only obvious thing is a scorch mark around the impeller ring.
    Again, assuming the diffuser was supposed to fall off when the pump assy was removed.
    I have not removed the impeller and sincerely I won't have to.
    I have not tried to run the motor - I have no way to control it should the torque want to make it spin short of re-assembling the pump.

    So - any chance that he scorched impeller ring would cause the pump to almost prime, drop back, try again - water level in basket varying between 1/2 and 3/4 full?

    edit:
    Never mind - a 1/2" open-end wrench less than 1/4" thick and at least 5" long should work to hold shaft
    end edit

    Thanks again for the incredible patience and assistance
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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