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Thread: New person to try the BBB Technique

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    New person to try the BBB Technique

    Here are my numbers as of last night. Pool is Dark Green and has been since I returned from vacation on June 3, kids are irate and I'm $700 poorer . Can't afford any of the pool store recommendations, so turning here. Pool details should be in the sig line.

    FC 0
    PH 6.8
    TA 100
    CH 250
    CYA 100

    I'm going to go today and return $500 of chemicals.

    Where should I start? They said 18 lbs soda ash in 2 9 lb doses 4 hrs apart.
    30k gal, IG, Vinyl, sand (250, 250 gpm,) 1HP Pump No main drain, Single Skimmer, Older pool

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Welcome to tfp, pbuffington

    Quote Originally Posted by pbuffington
    Where should I start? They said 18 lbs soda ash in 2 9 lb doses 4 hrs apart.
    I would use Borax to raise the ph, since that will not raise your TA as much as the soda ash, and your TA is already on the high side. To adjust ph, use poolcalculator.com to calculate how much Borax you need to go from 6.8 to 7.5. Add that and then let it circulate for 1 hour and test ph again. It will probably still read low, so re calculate how much to add to get to 7.5 and redose. Repeat this until your ph reads at least 7.2.

    What are you using for a test kit?

    An appropriate test kit is the single most cost saving step you can take. See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...kit_comparison Many of us get the tf-100 since it is the best value.

    Once you get ph in control, then you need to get your FC to an appropriate level.
    What does your water look like? What is your CC level?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Pool store water tests are notoriously inaccurate. Get a good test kit (TF-100 http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html) and do your own tests so you will know your starting point. Based on the numbers you posted I would try to get the pH up to around 7.2 while you wait for your test kit to arrive. Also read this while waiting: turning-your-green-swamp-back-into-a-sparkling-oasis-t4147.html
    The CYA reading of 100 would suggest that you may have to do a partial drain and refill, 100 is too high and is also the limit of the test so your actual CYA may be much higher.
    Read Pool School (pool-school/) and follow the plan and you'll have a sparkling pool before you know it.
    16x32 Oval In-ground Vinyl, ~17,000 gallons, Hayward 1hp Superpump, Hayward S245T Sand Filter

    Worn out sand? sand-filter-expert-help-t30049.html
    Drain the easy way: cyanuric-acid-blues-draining-pool-t43843.html
    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html , pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock , pool-school/shocking_your_pool

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Don't add any soda ash. With a TA of 100 it'll raise it way high. 18 lbs of soda ash will raise the pH by 2 and the TA by 70. Use borax to raise the pH. You'll need ~5 boxes of it (350oz).

    Once you get the pH in range, you're going to need to drain about half of the water and retest the CYA. It's typical for it to read 100 when it's way over 100.

    While you're doing that read Pool School on how to properly shock your pool.

    Those other two beat me to it, but I'm posting anyway!
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    OK I bought a basic test for today, and will order the TF100. I bought the Borax. I bought this house late fall last year, so this is my first real experience with a pool. *Deep Breath*

    What is CC? Is it Contained/Bound Chlorine (It's not in the ABC's) it's .5

    Here are my questions.
    1) How do I add 5 boxes of borax? Broadcast it, mix it, add some wait and then some more, etc?
    2) Why fix the PH and then drain the pool? Do I have to do literally 50%, What happens when I let Rain fill it up?
    3) What will refilling the pool do to the Ph?

    I am standing by the pool with the borax figuring out what to do next.

    Thanks
    Pam
    30k gal, IG, Vinyl, sand (250, 250 gpm,) 1HP Pump No main drain, Single Skimmer, Older pool

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Borax is best added by pre-dissolving it in a bucket of water and then pouring that slowly in front of a return.

    pool-school/recommended_pool_chemicals
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Oh! And I just returned $500 work of chemicals! Yay! (although the pool store now hates me)
    30k gal, IG, Vinyl, sand (250, 250 gpm,) 1HP Pump No main drain, Single Skimmer, Older pool

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    SkyKid's Avatar
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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Quote Originally Posted by pbuffington
    Oh! And I just returned $500 work of chemicals! Yay! (although the pool store now hates me)


    Listen to what these pro's here tell you(I did)

    And your pool will go from green to sparkling clear (It did for me in less than 2 weeks)
    14600gal, In-Ground Fiberglass, Haywood s244t Sand Filter, Jandy Apure35 SWG,
    Haywood 2 speed 1hp pump, Haywood Pool Shark, TF-100 Test Kit http://tftestkits.net/
    Pool School http://www.troublefreepool.com/categ...etting_started
    Never been Pool Stored Thanks to TFP

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Just mix it with some pool water and pour it in there. Wait about 30 minutes and test the pH again. Let us know how close to 7.5 it came.

    The problem with reading a 6.8 pH is that it may be a good deal lower than that and you don't want it staying low any longer than needed. That's why I suggested adjusting the pH and then draining.

    Unfortunately most test only go to 100 for CYA so if it's above that it still says 100. You need to get the CYA to about 50 ppm before you start the shock process. Otherwise it takes a huge amount of bleach to get you to shock level and to keep bringing it back there. So I'd start with 50% and see how that works out. You may actually have to drain more.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Perfect. I just like to understand so I don't repeat my mistakes.
    30k gal, IG, Vinyl, sand (250, 250 gpm,) 1HP Pump No main drain, Single Skimmer, Older pool

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    harleysilo's Avatar
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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Quote Originally Posted by pbuffington
    Oh! And I just returned $500 work of chemicals! Yay! (although the pool store now hates me)
    What did they say? We need details!
    18'x43' Sport Pool
    19,000 Gallons Vinyl Liner 3'-3.5'-4'
    SWCG and D.E. Filter
    Test Kits - Pool Calculator - Chlorine/CYA Chart - Pool School

    Secret Weapon for Pool Chemistry Testing

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    And understanding is what we're all about!

    We want you to understand why you do what you need to do.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Oh I got everything from you're an idiot, come to ask us to test your water and ask the experts and then ignore us. See we have this seal, I bet the other idiots didn't. (They were both Leslie stores).
    Here are the recommendations that I had previously received Yesterday.
    1st suggestion: I add in 20 lbs alkalinity up wait 4 hrs, 24 lbs soda ash in 2 12# doses 4 hrs apart, 48 Oz of Algae control 4 hrs, 66 lbs Fresh n Clear, . Hrm Don't like that solution.
    2nd suggestion: was 18 lbs soda ash + 6 lbs Chlor-brite. (I doubt that will work based on history) + recommend new sand in filter.
    3rd suggestion: I empty and refill with clean water. Hrm Don't like that solution. Might as well wait a year, get a new liner, and convert to salt.
    4th suggestion: 18 lbs soda ash + 2 10# tubs of Alum. Let algae die, vacuum and send to waste.

    I've now added in the 5 boxes of Borax, and letting it circulate. I'll post back in a couple of hours.
    30k gal, IG, Vinyl, sand (250, 250 gpm,) 1HP Pump No main drain, Single Skimmer, Older pool

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    OK, So it looks like my Ph is 7.2 from the cheesy wal-mart kit I bought for today.
    Is there any special technique for draining the pool half way? Should I suck it off the bottom with a vac? Put a cover pump on the bottom and let it suck it out, etc? Any tips for refilling, or just grab the hose and let it go?

    Should I get a sample professionally tested tonight before I start emptying?

    (TF-100 on order)
    30k gal, IG, Vinyl, sand (250, 250 gpm,) 1HP Pump No main drain, Single Skimmer, Older pool

  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Ahp, nevermind, I found the how to drain a pool with the link above.

    Thanks
    Pam
    30k gal, IG, Vinyl, sand (250, 250 gpm,) 1HP Pump No main drain, Single Skimmer, Older pool

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Hello Everyone,
    So I've spent the last week or so slowly draining the pool with the pump, and occasionally refilling it with my hose. This is an incredibly slow process as evidently my pool cover pump isn't very fast in the grand scheme of things. (Notice, no main drain, so I can't use the pump to assist in this process.)
    I've got my TF100 test kit and I'm almost down to 100 on my CYA, My chlorines are 0 since I was trying to tackle my CYA first. My question is, Can I go ahead and fill the pool, and start pouring in the chlorine with it this high realizing it will just take vastly more bleach? (My kids & I are missing the pool.) And I'll continue to bring down the CYA over time?

    OR Is that a Very Bad Idea, and I should be patient?

    Thanks
    Pam
    30k gal, IG, Vinyl, sand (250, 250 gpm,) 1HP Pump No main drain, Single Skimmer, Older pool

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Alternately, Any suggestions on how to get water out of the pool faster?
    30k gal, IG, Vinyl, sand (250, 250 gpm,) 1HP Pump No main drain, Single Skimmer, Older pool

  18. Back To Top    #18
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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    Pam,
    Some sand filters are plumbed with a valve to drain water to an open (exit) pipe prior to going into the filter. If you have that, you can use the pump to draw water from the pool and dispose of it.
    Others are plumbed with a multi-valve that offers choices of filter, circulate, backwash, rinse, drain. If you have that, you can set it to drain, and dispose of the water.

    I know it's just more stuff to be concerned about, but we'd be able to help you better if you could fill in your signature (thru the User Control Panel, upper left button) with the details of your pool equipment, AND provide photos of your pump/filter/valve set-up. Photos of the pool itself will help, too. We will help.

    You will emerge victorious from your sparkling clean pool!
    Alan in Wellington, FL - near West Palm Beach
    15,200 gal IG, painted plaster, 1988; 200 SqFt cartridge filter, 2013; 1.5 HP 1-speed pump (uprated), 2005; heat pump, 2005;
    soon to repair (dead) SWG AquaRite T-15 cell, 2005, and replace (dead) suction-side cleaner, 2005.
    Almost everything died this winter 2012-'13, and I know we shouldn't complain... but, Arrgh!

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    My pool sits on a hill so I was able to get some 1" pvc pipe and start a siphon. The pipe in the pool was cut off at the level I wanted to drain to so I could leave it unsupervised without worrying that it would drain too much. I used a shop vac to get the siphon started.
    16x32 Oval In-ground Vinyl, ~17,000 gallons, Hayward 1hp Superpump, Hayward S245T Sand Filter

    Worn out sand? sand-filter-expert-help-t30049.html
    Drain the easy way: cyanuric-acid-blues-draining-pool-t43843.html
    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html , pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock , pool-school/shocking_your_pool

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: New person to try the BBB Technique

    OK. To drain my pool faster, I bought a second sump pump. (Duh!) It's very green (obviously) and is being a great breeding pond for tadpoles and other swimming things.

    OK, here are today's numbers
    FC 0
    Ph 8.2
    CC 0
    TA 130
    CH 190
    CYA 90

    Which according to the pool calculator says dump in 14 Gallons of bleach to get to a shock of 35. And KEEP it there until the water is clear? How Many Days should I keep it there?
    How many Gallons of Chlorine should I buy to prepare to shock this pool? Is it a problem to keep a pool at this high of a chlorine level with the filter running for days on end? AND What kind of Bleach do you use? Generic, Chlorox Concentrated, Outdoor concentrated, etc?
    30k gal, IG, Vinyl, sand (250, 250 gpm,) 1HP Pump No main drain, Single Skimmer, Older pool

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