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Thread: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo VS?

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    Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo VS?

    My current pump (Hayward Max-Flo II 1.5HP) is quite loud, I'm sure costly, and questionable as to whether it "will" move enough water. I say "will" b/c we have a solar heater that is currently not running, but we'd like to eventually get it functioning again. Our pool/equipment has deferred maintenance, so we are trying to fix things in stages to spread the expense.

    The pool equipment is all ground level w/ one set of returns running ~25' to one corner of the pool, and the other returns going to our spa that overflows into the pool, which is ~45' from the pump/equipment. For intake we have a main drain (that is not functioning currently), a skimmer box that is ~25', and a vacuum line that is ~35' from the pump/equipment. Our (prior) pool guy was not sure if a rebuild was the answer for the pump, and felt the pump may be under HP. At the end of last year (before I discovered TFP and took over maintenance ) he was recommending we go with an IntelliFlo over the EcoStar. I now see Hayward has the Max-Flo VS and if 1.5HP is sufficient it would probably be a great replacement option.

    Any thoughts on the ideal size pump we should be using, or other pumps I should be considering?

    Thanks.
    Jason
    ~10K Gallon Inground w/ Spa in Screened Lanai
    AutoPilot Nano SWG
    Hayward Max-Flo II 1.5HP
    Hayward Pool Vac
    Pentair Clean & Clear 100 Cartridge Filter
    AquaCal Heat Pump
    Control Panel (not functioning)
    Solar Heat (not functioning)
    Jandy Valves (not functioning)

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    Do you just have the one pump for the pool and the spa? Was everything working ok before or did you "inherit" the equipment problems? If everything was working ok before and your electrical costs are reasonable you may want to look into a two speed 1 1/2 hp pump. Variable speed pumps are fairly expensive in my opinion, so you may want to look into how cost effective one would be for your situation.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    Just one pump...and we "inherited" all the problems, but looking at everything it seems it has been in place for quite sometime., so it seems logical this was all powered by the existing pump at one point. However, if the pump is under sized for our setup I'd like to make sure I replace it with a more suitable HP, whether that be a 2-speed motor or VS pump.
    ~10K Gallon Inground w/ Spa in Screened Lanai
    AutoPilot Nano SWG
    Hayward Max-Flo II 1.5HP
    Hayward Pool Vac
    Pentair Clean & Clear 100 Cartridge Filter
    AquaCal Heat Pump
    Control Panel (not functioning)
    Solar Heat (not functioning)
    Jandy Valves (not functioning)

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    Florida electrical rates are pretty inexpensive $0.15 cents KWH, a 2-speed is more cost effective than a variable speed. The cost savings won't pay for the difference between a 2-speed and a variable speed motor.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    Although the newer max flo is cheaper than the intelliflo and it appears to be a great looking pump ... just too new for any reviews. Makes it pretty competitive against the 2 speeds ... especially if a rebate is available.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    Any thoughts on sizing though...is 1-1/2HP sufficient, or do you all think we need 2+ HP like our former pool guy thought? He also felt we should have a high-head rated pump due to the solar heater (one story house), but I'm thinking that would be overkill. Thoughts on pump motor sizing?
    ~10K Gallon Inground w/ Spa in Screened Lanai
    AutoPilot Nano SWG
    Hayward Max-Flo II 1.5HP
    Hayward Pool Vac
    Pentair Clean & Clear 100 Cartridge Filter
    AquaCal Heat Pump
    Control Panel (not functioning)
    Solar Heat (not functioning)
    Jandy Valves (not functioning)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    I have solar running that is 100 feet from the pump that runs just fine with my 1 hp pump. Other members have solar on a 2 story house with a 1/2 hp pump.

    What makes him think you need 2+ hp?

    The risk is whether our not the spa jets are strong enough for you with the smaller VS pump.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    For pump sizing, the crucial question is how you like the amount of "action" you are getting from the spa jets. The pool would be fine with 1/2 HP, only the spa makes use of the full 1 1/2 HP. And the spa question is really a matter of personal taste.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    When we bought the house the pool was losing water as the "waterfall" from the spa into the pool was not strong enough, so whenever the pump ran some water was essentially spilling onto the concrete instead of making it back into the pool. Our pool guy was able to manually adjust the Jandy valves to push enough water to the spa to prevent the spillage and keep the other set of returns still moving water in the pool. However, he felt the pump was barely able to handle this and provide adequate flow, and he wasn't sure new seals were the answer or a waste of our money, but he would do them if we wanted. Given the age, loudness, and newer energy, efficient pumps the new seals option didn't seem to make much sense. Hence the focus on either a new VS pump or 2-speed motor but before we decide on that it seems we need to be sure we are sizing the HP correctly. Everyone's setup is unique and I don't know how to gauge ours, but I feel I can trust the experts on this board.
    ~10K Gallon Inground w/ Spa in Screened Lanai
    AutoPilot Nano SWG
    Hayward Max-Flo II 1.5HP
    Hayward Pool Vac
    Pentair Clean & Clear 100 Cartridge Filter
    AquaCal Heat Pump
    Control Panel (not functioning)
    Solar Heat (not functioning)
    Jandy Valves (not functioning)

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    You should post some photos of the waterfall area.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    Could you even run the solar on low speed with a 2-speed pump?

    Philip

    Philip
    12.5x21.5x52" on-ground 29" below ground (6000 gallons water), .85 HP Hayward SP26115VSP , Hayward XStream 100 sq.ft. cartridge filter, Hayward AquaRite salt system, 160 sqft of Aquatherm solar panels on 12' high flat roof 25' away from pump, Goldline auto controller for solar, Heat Pump, May->October @77+ in Toronto, Pool Python.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    Some can after it is primed, but the best heating is at high flow rates, so I do not even try. I run on high when I need heat and low when I don't ... which is all winter and in the dead of summer.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    Attached are a couple pics of the waterfall area...I tried to get them as 'straight-on' as possible.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    ~10K Gallon Inground w/ Spa in Screened Lanai
    AutoPilot Nano SWG
    Hayward Max-Flo II 1.5HP
    Hayward Pool Vac
    Pentair Clean & Clear 100 Cartridge Filter
    AquaCal Heat Pump
    Control Panel (not functioning)
    Solar Heat (not functioning)
    Jandy Valves (not functioning)

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    That spillover isn't all that wide, so you existing pump, or the Max Flo VSP, are more than enough to handle it.

    My theory about what you pool tech said is that your setup always sends some water to the spa any time it is sending water to the pool. In that situation, no all that much of the flow goes to the spa, and that could cut the flow enough to cause the problem with the waterfall. In such a situation a larger pump would provide enough flow to the waterfall, but in doing so it would be wasting lots of energy. A more common solution to this problem is to setup the pool circulation mode to go 100% to the pool and to run the spa in 100% of flow to the spillover for an hour a day. That would allow both pool circulation and spa spillover to run at a low speed and still have the waterfall look good. Depending on how your spillover is currently plumbed, that may or may not require a minor plumbing change (chances are it wouldn't, but you never know).
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    Hi Jason, thank you for the insight. I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly on the more common solution...

    1) Run the flow 100% to the spa for 1-hour every day.
    2) The remaining time run the flow 100% to the pool.

    I think the only concern there may be getting enough circulation in the pool based on the location of the returns. One set of returns is in a corner of the deep end, and the other set of returns is in the spa, which is in the opposite corner of the shallow end. There are no other returns in the shallow end, so I think would that leave the shallow end relatively stagnant.

    I'm not keen on oversizing the pump just for running the solar heat in the winter season. However, if the plumbing is right, then could I have it setup so that when the solar heat is running I just have 100% of the flow go to the spa (and not the deep end return). Would that work?
    ~10K Gallon Inground w/ Spa in Screened Lanai
    AutoPilot Nano SWG
    Hayward Max-Flo II 1.5HP
    Hayward Pool Vac
    Pentair Clean & Clear 100 Cartridge Filter
    AquaCal Heat Pump
    Control Panel (not functioning)
    Solar Heat (not functioning)
    Jandy Valves (not functioning)

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Should I replace my pump with an IntelliFlo or a Max-Flo

    Yes, you understand correctly.

    Two returns should be plenty as long as you aim them correctly. The idea is to setup a circular movement of all of the water that mixes the water and carries debris towards the skimmer. Usually even just one return is enough to do that. You may need to fiddle with the return jet aiming, but once you have it right it will be clear, debris on the surface will be seen to circle around the pool.

    Running solar 100% to the spa might be problematic at the peak of solar heating season. A spillover doesn't provide much water movement (though it does mix well). That could result in areas of poor circulation far from the spillover. As long as you are getting a hour or two of regular return jets this won't be an issue. It should be possible to insure that happens, though it might mean a little extra pump runtime during peak solar heating.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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