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Thread: Info Overload

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    Info Overload

    New pool owner with an old pool.

    We've been through the stress of measuring/ordering/installing a new vinyl liner*, getting the pump up and running (plumbed it backwards the first time - "in" the return and "out" the skimmer!), now we're having fun with all this chemistry. Still not sure I'm reading my test kit correctly, either.

    Between neighbors, websites, pool stores and this incredible forum, it's becoming information overload and I have no idea where to start.

    Is there a "flow chart" or procedure I could follow? I'm sure I can find the answers to individual questions, just feeling lost in the procedure.

    What's first? Go ahead and shock the pool or focus on pH?
    Then what...chlorine?
    ...and then...?

    Thanks,

    Nic

    *Sometime, ask me about the snake that got under the liner.
    15,000 gal, IG, Vinyl
    Cartridge Filter: Hayward C12002, 120 GPM
    Pump: 1.5 hp, Flotec AT251501-01
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Info Overload

    Most of what you need to know is covered in the pool school link in the upper right of every page here. My best advice is to read it let it soak in then read it again. If you have to do something first adjust your pH, then add chlorine, but until yo understand things use only liquid chlorine / bleach as it does not add the potentially unwanted things that dry chlorine compounds add.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Info Overload

    Is the pool now full and the equipment running? How does the water look?

    Step 1: Post up a full set of test results. Which test kit do you have?

    There is no flowchart and the path forward depends on the test results.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: Info Overload

    Thanks Isaac-1 and jblizzle.

    Yes, I'm reading Pool School - again, that's part of my "info overload". Bits and pieces are starting to sink in, slowly. It really is an amazing resource!

    The pool is full, the equipment is running - got the pump running last night, added one bag of shock and it's been running all night. It looks mostly clear, but the first few days, we didn't have the pump running, so I think algae got a slight foothold.

    The "kit" I have is the Aqua Check Test Strips.

    I just took a reading. Here are the results (I think):

    pH 8.4 (This one is so far off the charts, I'm not sure what it truly is.)
    chlorine 0.5
    CC 0
    TA 180 (not sure about the reading on this one - subject to "color interpretation")
    Calcium hardness 100
    CYA 40

    The app I'm using, recommends "2 fl oz of liquid chlorine or 134,217,727 lbs and 15 oz of powdered chlorine". For some reason, whether it's 2 oz or 134 million pounds, I don't think either one is correct.

    Thanks,

    Nic
    15,000 gal, IG, Vinyl
    Cartridge Filter: Hayward C12002, 120 GPM
    Pump: 1.5 hp, Flotec AT251501-01
    TF-100 Test Kit

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Info Overload

    OK a revised plan:

    Step 1: Order one of the Recommended Test Kits because test strips are worthless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nplsdvr
    The app I'm using, recommends "2 fl oz of liquid chlorine or 134,217,727 lbs and 15 oz of powdered chlorine". For some reason, whether it's 2 oz or 134 million pounds, I don't think either one is correct.
    I almost spit Coke everywhere ... see you understand something

    If you want to believe those numbers (I would not). Then you need to lower the pH into the 7s and then maintain the FC > 3ppm for your CYA level of 40ppm. Everything else takes a backseat.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Info Overload

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle

    Quote Originally Posted by Nplsdvr
    The app I'm using, recommends "2 fl oz of liquid chlorine or 134,217,727 lbs and 15 oz of powdered chlorine". For some reason, whether it's 2 oz or 134 million pounds, I don't think either one is correct.
    I almost spit Coke everywhere ... see you understand something

    Yeah...I'm pretty quick with the obvious.
    15,000 gal, IG, Vinyl
    Cartridge Filter: Hayward C12002, 120 GPM
    Pump: 1.5 hp, Flotec AT251501-01
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Re: Info Overload

    Between neighbors, websites, pool stores and this incredible forum, it's becoming information overload and I have no idea where to start.
    Start the flow chart by getting rid of the neighbors, websites and pool stores. trying to blend all that advice would confuse Albert Einstein and it will end up with you right in the middle of advice from all sides.

    Either stay with this forum or a pool store or a neighbor but do not try to blend....it never works.

    If you stay with us, you'll have to ditch the strips and get a good drops based kit so your testing is believable. Strips, pool stores (and probably neighbors) are seldom valid and it's almost impossible to suggest what to do to your water when we don't have confidence in your test results.

    We can get your pool crystal clear for the rest of the swimming season....we hope you stay with us.

    There appears to be a pretty large range on that app, huh?

    Have you found poolcalculator.com?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Info Overload

    1st-order GOOD test kit.

    2nd-do NOT listen to pool store

    3rd-post pics for all to see

    4th-dive in and enjoy a cool one when you post your first set of numbers and we all clap at how much you have learned.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Info Overload

    Ok, a couple of things:

    If this is a fresh fill and you have only added a pound of "shock" (this might be dichlor, trichlor, cal-hypo, or less likely lithium hypo, we need to know which one) there is no way your CYA level is 40, at least not unless your pool is a big kiddie pool, you meant 150 gallons not 15K gallons and you used dichlor or trichlor shock.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    Re: Info Overload

    I 2nd kimkats. Run fast and run far from the pool store! Snatch up a good test kit & you will be the Master of your pool.

    TFP is the best, easyist & most inexpensive way to have crystal clear water. Not sure what to do with those numbers from the test kit? Post your results and they will walk you through it.

    Keep on reading Pool School. It will all come together and make perfect common sense compared to what the pool store will tell you.
    17,500 gal. ABG Doughboy Pool
    1/2 HP Pump/150 sq.ft. Cartridge Filter
    TF100 Test Kit And Speedstir

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Info Overload

    1. GOOD test kit ordered.
    2. Haven't been to the pool store in weeks.
    3. Here are the pics:

    [attachment=1:3k0roqxd]20130613_170103.jpg[/attachment:3k0roqxd]

    [attachment=0:3k0roqxd]20130613_170118.jpg[/attachment:3k0roqxd]

    4. Definitely learning! Can't wait for it all to make sense.

    Thank you all so much! I'm still feeling confused, but a little more grounded.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    15,000 gal, IG, Vinyl
    Cartridge Filter: Hayward C12002, 120 GPM
    Pump: 1.5 hp, Flotec AT251501-01
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Info Overload

    SWEET!
    17,500 gal. ABG Doughboy Pool
    1/2 HP Pump/150 sq.ft. Cartridge Filter
    TF100 Test Kit And Speedstir

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Info Overload

    Quote Originally Posted by Nplsdvr
    Between neighbors, websites, pool stores and this incredible forum, it's becoming information overload and I have no idea where to start..
    Like it says in the Bible: You will know them by their fruits.

    Go look at the neighbor's pool. Take a whiff. Ask to see his test kit. Then decide if he's someone you'd care to emulate.

    The pool store is the ravenous wolf. But you knew that.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Info Overload

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1
    Ok, a couple of things:

    If this is a fresh fill and you have only added a pound of "shock" (this might be dichlor, trichlor, cal-hypo, or less likely lithium hypo, we need to know which one) there is no way your CYA level is 40, at least not unless your pool is a big kiddie pool, you meant 150 gallons not 15K gallons and you used dichlor or trichlor shock.
    Yes, a fresh fill - well water since it's free. We did add a "metal free" http://www.lesliespool.com/Home/Pool...ers/14834.html We are definitely getting a "reading" for the CYA on the test strips...how accurate? Your guess is as good as mine.

    For a couple days, while the pump wasn't working, we added liquid chlorine.

    Last night, with the pump finally on, we added "Super Zappit" Calcium Hypochlorite http://www.spa-daddy.com/Super-Zappi...-75818-sd.html It actually registered chlorine for the first time ever this morning, now, a few hours later, it's all back to 0. I can tell this is going to be a fun ride already.

    This morning my wife noticed a "staining" on the fiberglass steps. I was able to rub it off with my fingers. If that's mustard algae, I'm gonna be one unhappy camper.

    The test kit is ordered and on the way...in the meantime: what do I need to do to keep a lid on this? Just dump in a few gallons of chlorine/bleach each day? Can we swim in it? How long should we run the pump and clean the filter?

    Thanks!

    Nic
    15,000 gal, IG, Vinyl
    Cartridge Filter: Hayward C12002, 120 GPM
    Pump: 1.5 hp, Flotec AT251501-01
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Info Overload

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Quote Originally Posted by Nplsdvr
    Between neighbors, websites, pool stores and this incredible forum, it's becoming information overload and I have no idea where to start..
    Like it says in the Bible: You will know them by their fruits.

    Go look at the neighbor's pool. Take a whiff. Ask to see his test kit. Then decide if he's someone you'd care to emulate.

    The pool store is the ravenous wolf. But you knew that.
    Aaaaaaamen, Richard320.

    What am I "whiffing" for? Should I smell chlorine or not smell chlorine? If memory serves, he's admitted to not using a test kit, but his wife is the one who takes care of the pool.

    Thanks,

    Nic
    15,000 gal, IG, Vinyl
    Cartridge Filter: Hayward C12002, 120 GPM
    Pump: 1.5 hp, Flotec AT251501-01
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Info Overload

    It does not sound like you added any CYA ... so it should be 0ppm ... see why we say what we say about test strips?

    So get 30ppm of the CYA dissolving in a sock in front of a return jet.
    Keep the adding bleach to maintain 2+ppm of FC.

    Read this:
    pool-school/pump_run_time

    Clean the filter when the pressure rises 20-25% over the clean pressure.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Info Overload

    Quote Originally Posted by Nplsdvr
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Quote Originally Posted by Nplsdvr
    Between neighbors, websites, pool stores and this incredible forum, it's becoming information overload and I have no idea where to start..
    Like it says in the Bible: You will know them by their fruits.

    Go look at the neighbor's pool. Take a whiff. Ask to see his test kit. Then decide if he's someone you'd care to emulate.

    The pool store is the ravenous wolf. But you knew that.
    Aaaaaaamen, Richard320.

    What am I "whiffing" for? Should I smell chlorine or not smell chlorine? If memory serves, he's admitted to not using a test kit, but his wife is the one who takes care of the pool.

    Thanks,

    Nic
    You shouldn't smell anything. That chlorine smell you associate with public pools, spas, waterslides, etc is not high chlorine levels. It's chloramines. If it's an outdoor pool, it means not enough chlorine. I won't overload you with tech talk about indoor pools.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Info Overload

    CYA is a pool specific additive and does not exist in well water or municipal water supplies, it only gets into pools by adding CYA stabilizer in liquid or powder form, or through build up from using dichlor or trichlor based dry chlorine products (pucks, powder, tablets, etc.). In a 15,000 gallon pool 1 pound of Dichlor would add about 4ppm of CYA and 4.4 ppm of FC
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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  19. Back To Top    #19
    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: Info Overload

    Short Answer: Until you get your test kit, add bleach each day.

    Based on my guessitmate (poolcalculator.com) and experiences, it's about 112 oz of 10% bleach (liquid chlorinator from Wal-mart) each day it's hot and sunny. This may be a little overkill but until you get CYA dissolved and your test kit, it's a good start. If you have a simple 6 way test kit testing block with the yellow CL test, shoot to keep your CL in the 2-6 PPM range.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: Info Overload

    Got the stabilizer, putting in the sock right now!
    Picked up a few gallons of chlorine - don't know what the concentration is, I'm going to try to find something online.
    Also have a couple gallons of muriatic acid.

    The question is: what would be the procedure for adding all of this? I know I just can't dump it in and stir.
    I'll put the stabilizer in a sock and hang it by the return jet...let it run....? Overnight? 24 hrs? Until gone?

    When can I start adding chlorine and muriatic acid? At the same time? 4 hours apart? I'd rather not asphyxiate the entire county.

    Or just point me to a link and I'll check it out.

    Thanks again,

    Nic
    15,000 gal, IG, Vinyl
    Cartridge Filter: Hayward C12002, 120 GPM
    Pump: 1.5 hp, Flotec AT251501-01
    TF-100 Test Kit

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