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Thread: Very GREEN Pool Owner

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    Very GREEN Pool Owner

    We just put a pool in last month and I tested the water last night and found the ph to be 6.6 and everything else except chorine was low. My wife took a pool sample to the store today and they sold her chemicals to get it up to par. They are as follows plus the amounts. Pool is a 21 x 49.5 averaging 6' deep, I figured it at 40000 gal, got a SWG that is keeping around 3350 ppm.

    Add 4 lbs of Chlorine Stabilize (pre dissolve it by putting 1.5 lbs in a panty hose in each skimmer) add
    the rest after the first dissolves
    wait at least 6 hours add 5 lbs of pH increase (she said we did not have to wait the 6 hrs if we did
    not want to)
    wait 24 hours and add 12.5 lbs of calcium hardness increaser directly broadcast all the hardner
    wait 6 hours and add 12.5 lbs of calcium hardness increaser
    wait 6 hours and add 12.5 lbs of calcium hardness increaser
    wait 6 hours and add 12.5 lbs of calcium hardness increaser
    wait 6 hours and add 12.5 lbs of calcium hardness increaser
    wait 6 hours and add 12.5 lbs of calcium hardness increaser
    wait 6 hours and add 10 lbs of calcium

    I might add there have been no chemicals added to the pool since filling. I am going to call her tomorrow and make sure I understand the instructions but I wonder if there is anything else I need to ask.

    I ordered a test kit today as recommended from this forum and was wondering if I should wait until it comes in some I can get some base numbers to work off of for future reference. Understand I am an engineer and the test strips matching colors just don't do it for me, I need numbers to go by.

    Any advice please?
    20x49 double roman 3.5' to 8.5 deep', 44,000 gal. SWG, TF-100 test kit with speed stir, concrete walls with vinyl liner, cartridge filter on an IG pool with a 1hp main pump and 1.5hp booster pump. Pool built April 2013

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    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    Wait to add the stuff the PS sold your wife until you have the test kit.

    While you are waiting, check out the Pool Calculator and bring your pool up to shock level with either bleach or liquid chlorine for your intended CYA target, along with adding enough borax to raise your pH into the proper range.

    When you get your kit, post the numbers here for additional help.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    WHOA there!!!
    You have a vinyl pool ... therefore you do not need ANY calcium hardness increaser!!! Take all that **** back and then never return to that store

    You do need to add CYA and with a fresh fill are starting at 0ppm. Add enough to get you up to about 30ppm. Then at this point just add a few jugs of bleach every day until you have your test kit and can post real results.

    Did you order the Speedstir as well? ... as an engineer you should kick yourself if you did not.

    And please read Pool School a few times ... you will know more than the pool store employees in a matter of minutes.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    I did not order the speedstir, what is it? I am an electrical guy and barely got by chemistry and biology. I have read and will continue to read until I am blue in the face. The hardner is not needed with a vinyl lined pool?? I will find out the reasoning behind the hardner when I talk to them.

    For some reason adding bleach just freaks me out a little but I can tell it is common among pool owners. I just have to get some base numbers to start with.

    I did get 5lbd of pH increase, should I add that before the kit.

    This is confusing at best, but someday I will be able to help others with my experience.
    20x49 double roman 3.5' to 8.5 deep', 44,000 gal. SWG, TF-100 test kit with speed stir, concrete walls with vinyl liner, cartridge filter on an IG pool with a 1hp main pump and 1.5hp booster pump. Pool built April 2013

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    I would take that back as well. Go to your local Walmart and buy a few boxes of 20 mule team borax from the laundry isle. Check first with the pool calculator for how much you will need. Add about half of it initially, then go to a different pool store for another water test. I bet they will give you entirely different results and recommendations!
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    Quote Originally Posted by gobblerhuntr
    I tested the water last night and found the ph to be 6.6 and everything else except chorine was low.
    NM I see at the bottom you mentioned test strips.

    Add Stabilizer to reach 30 and keep FC above 2 at all times, 4 is where you wanna be around. If you go too high, above 10 you can't test PH when your kit does arrive. Just keep an eye on FC levels in case it drops fast.
    12500 gallons, 24 foot round above ground
    Hayward Sand filter, Pentair OptiFlo 1HP 2-Speed pump

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    yeah the pool calc looks cool but I don't have any numbers to plug into it until my kit arrives, I may add some borax or ph increaser (that i have) and try and get the pH up before the kit arrives. I really need NUMBERS to compare.
    20x49 double roman 3.5' to 8.5 deep', 44,000 gal. SWG, TF-100 test kit with speed stir, concrete walls with vinyl liner, cartridge filter on an IG pool with a 1hp main pump and 1.5hp booster pump. Pool built April 2013

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    well its a fresh fill, so you know your CYA (Stabilizer is 0) Pool calc says for 44,000 gallons your gonna need 11 lbs to hit 30.

    I see you say the pool store sold you stuff...if they sold you stabilizer for the CYA you can get that in now. It takes the longest to mix in. One thing they did get right is the method of putting it in pantyhose. Can also use a sock, and it seems most popular to put it in front of a return just if possible, not the skimmer.

    EDIT* Wow I just re-read your first post and they only directed you to add 4 lbs of stabilizer....@ 44,000 gallons that's only 10CYA. To put it in context, this site recommends a CYA of 30 to start with and then 70 to 80 for pools with a SWG. (Though you don't want to hit those numbers till you get everything else balanced out.)
    12500 gallons, 24 foot round above ground
    Hayward Sand filter, Pentair OptiFlo 1HP 2-Speed pump

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    Walmart usually carries an HTH 6-way kit that will get you a few basic numbers. My local Ace Hardware even carries this same kit under a different brand name.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    So, are you keeping some chlorine in that pool?

    Do you know the specific name of the Calcium Harness Increaser you used?
    18'x43' Sport Pool
    19,000 Gallons Vinyl Liner 3'-3.5'-4'
    SWCG and D.E. Filter
    Test Kits - Pool Calculator - Chlorine/CYA Chart - Pool School

    Secret Weapon for Pool Chemistry Testing

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    I am going to add the stabil at lunch today. Then when I get home I am going to add some borax or the pH increaser they sold me. Only question is how much to add to bring pH of 6.6 up to 7.6?


    I will get the name of the hardner when I go home for lunch.
    20x49 double roman 3.5' to 8.5 deep', 44,000 gal. SWG, TF-100 test kit with speed stir, concrete walls with vinyl liner, cartridge filter on an IG pool with a 1hp main pump and 1.5hp booster pump. Pool built April 2013

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    Is 6.6 the lowest the strips show? If it is, Ph could be lower than that. I would expect it to take you more than one attempt to raise PH because you don't really know how low PH is.

    Since you don't really know, why not use aeration to try and raise your PH? At least until you get your test kit...

    pool-school/recommended_pool_chemicals

    Raising PH

    PH can be raised in three ways: borax, soda ash, and aeration. Borax is usually the best choice. Borax raises the PH and also raises the TA level just a little. If your TA level is low soda ash will raise both the PH and TA levels. If your TA level is high, aeration is best as it will not raise the TA level at all. However, aeration is rather slow compared to the other two.

    Borax is available as 20 Mule TeamŪ Borax Natural Laundry Booster. It is sold in the laundry detergent section of most larger grocery stores and some big box stores. Borax is best added by pre-dissolving it in a bucket of water and then pouring that slowly in front of a return.

    Soda ash is available as ARM & HAMMERŪ Super Washing Soda Detergent Booster. Do not confuse this with ARM & HAMMERŪ laundry detergent! It is sold in the laundry detergent section of most larger grocery stores and some big box stores. It is also sold by pool stores under various names, including PH Increaser, PH Up, Balance Pak 200, etc. Soda ash is best added by pre-dissolving it in a bucket of water and then pouring that slowly in front of a return.

    Aeration can be provided by a SWG, spa jets, waterfall, fountain, return pointed up so it breaks the surface, air compressor, kids splashing, rain, etc. It can take some time for aeration to raise the PH. The higher your TA level, the faster aeration will work.
    18'x43' Sport Pool
    19,000 Gallons Vinyl Liner 3'-3.5'-4'
    SWCG and D.E. Filter
    Test Kits - Pool Calculator - Chlorine/CYA Chart - Pool School

    Secret Weapon for Pool Chemistry Testing

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    The test strip goes way on down below 6.6.

    Did not know that introducing air into the pool would raise the pH? Might try that along with the pH increaser the store sold me.

    My biggest problem so far is understanding quantities and application methods
    20x49 double roman 3.5' to 8.5 deep', 44,000 gal. SWG, TF-100 test kit with speed stir, concrete walls with vinyl liner, cartridge filter on an IG pool with a 1hp main pump and 1.5hp booster pump. Pool built April 2013

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    The pool calculator makes determining quantities (based on testing) very easy.

    I use a Philips kitchen scale to measure dry chemicals be weight. This one actually http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbi ... =HR3003/00

    I use a large measuring cup to measure liquid by volume.

    I use a neat large shot glass for my hot tub, it has ounces/ml's/ and a couple of other markings on it.

    Application methods are pretty simple except for maybe MA (muratic acid). You can read about it in pool school.

    I hesitate to suggest using PH up until you do some non- strip based testing (thus my mention of aeration), BUT i have read that the test strips most often get right is the PH test.
    18'x43' Sport Pool
    19,000 Gallons Vinyl Liner 3'-3.5'-4'
    SWCG and D.E. Filter
    Test Kits - Pool Calculator - Chlorine/CYA Chart - Pool School

    Secret Weapon for Pool Chemistry Testing

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    Quote Originally Posted by harleysilo
    So, are you keeping some chlorine in that pool?

    Do you know the specific name of the Calcium Harness Increaser you used?
    The hardener as all the other chemicals the store sold my wife appear to be made specifically for the pool store by Baleco Int'l Inc out of Cinncy OH.
    20x49 double roman 3.5' to 8.5 deep', 44,000 gal. SWG, TF-100 test kit with speed stir, concrete walls with vinyl liner, cartridge filter on an IG pool with a 1hp main pump and 1.5hp booster pump. Pool built April 2013

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    Did you actually use the hardness increaser or can you still try to return it?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    I have not put anything in the pool yet. Was going to put the stabilizer in this afternoon and maybe something to raise the pH either borax or the pH increase I got from the store.
    20x49 double roman 3.5' to 8.5 deep', 44,000 gal. SWG, TF-100 test kit with speed stir, concrete walls with vinyl liner, cartridge filter on an IG pool with a 1hp main pump and 1.5hp booster pump. Pool built April 2013

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    Just talked to the pool store and they said the calcium hardness increaser needed to be in there in order to protect the pool liner. If I did not put it in I would be changing the liner out a lot quicker. Said it would help protect it against the sun. I don't know.
    20x49 double roman 3.5' to 8.5 deep', 44,000 gal. SWG, TF-100 test kit with speed stir, concrete walls with vinyl liner, cartridge filter on an IG pool with a 1hp main pump and 1.5hp booster pump. Pool built April 2013

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    FALSE.

    We have members with CH near 0ppm.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Very GREEN Pool Owner

    I believe some here have 0 ppm, and I am at 20 ppm right now. Have been that low for at least 2 years. Liner is still fine.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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