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Thread: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

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    zephard's Avatar
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    Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?



    We have a small bakyard area to work with. In SE Texas. Do not plan on closing the pool for winter.

    Gunite Pool 4,000psi mostly 8' by 20' with L shape 13' on that side for stair entry. 6,000 gal aprox. - no spa
    4' at stair entry, 4 1/2' middle of pool, 5' deep end. Feet for waterline depth.
    5 steps at entry
    Pebble sheen finish, blue granite
    NPT 6x6 Aquarius Atlantis Iceberg blue tile
    NPT precast coping
    420 sqft Saw cut in to squares/Stamped/ stained/ grit sealed concrete decking
    Deck drainage: Either Decco or 4" PVC drain at least 10' from deck.
    One regular white 250 light with light switch (have not looked in to this yet)
    Remove/replace fencing- remove debris, remove dirt

    2" pipe for suction and returns
    3 regular returns and 2 jet returns on a small bench in the deep end.
    2 skimmers

    Hayward Tristar 1 hp pump
    Hayward C3030, 325 Sq.Ft Swim Clear Cartridge
    Hayward AQR AquaRite Salt Chlorinator with 25,000 gallon Turbo Cell, 15' cable, 3 warranty
    ITEM # T-CELL-9
    Hayward Heater H250FDN Natural Gas, 250,000 BTUs
    Hayward navigator pro suction

    Pool school upon release of pool in to my care.
    I will order a recommended test kit. Which one for My pool/SE Texas do you suggest?
    Will need nylon brush. pole, net.
    Let me know if I left something out. Just wondering if this is a good start up.

    Thanks.
    Pool: IG, 8'W x20'L x5' deep, 6000 gallons, Stonescapes Blue Tropics Mini-Pebble gunite pool
    Equipment: Hayward SwimClear 3030 cartridge filter, SP32102EE Tristar 1 HP 2-speed pump,
    Universal H-Series Low NOx H400FDN (400K BTU) heater, SWG = Hayward Aqua
    Rite with Turbo Cell 9, and a Navigator XL cleaner
    Ground break 7/12/2013 Filled 8/6/2013

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    zephard's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    Pool: IG, 8'W x20'L x5' deep, 6000 gallons, Stonescapes Blue Tropics Mini-Pebble gunite pool
    Equipment: Hayward SwimClear 3030 cartridge filter, SP32102EE Tristar 1 HP 2-speed pump,
    Universal H-Series Low NOx H400FDN (400K BTU) heater, SWG = Hayward Aqua
    Rite with Turbo Cell 9, and a Navigator XL cleaner
    Ground break 7/12/2013 Filled 8/6/2013

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    Sounds pretty good. Might want to consider a 2 speed pump. And that cartridge filter is huge for a 6k gallon pool. Minimum filter size would only need to be about 90sqft.

    The TF100 is the best test kit.

    Love our blue granite
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    zephard's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    Thank you,

    Do you think the 250btu heater is enough? The wife wants to be able to turn on the heater and then swim within a couple hours. She doesn't plan on using the pool when the outside temps are below 60 at the time of use. I am thinking we will be able to use the pool March through November here in Houston.

    What would be the benefit in a 2 speed pump over the one?

    Will the larger filter cause any issues or is it just overkill? Would it help keep the pool water cleaner or would we have to change the filter less due to its size? - just trying to figure out why builder is putting it for my pool.

    The TF100 test kit, the article on this website about test kits has links to an East coast and West coast option. They take me to different websites where I can order. Are the kits the same or different for those areas?

    This build is from a local PB that was recommended to me by a general contractor that has done work for us.
    Pool: IG, 8'W x20'L x5' deep, 6000 gallons, Stonescapes Blue Tropics Mini-Pebble gunite pool
    Equipment: Hayward SwimClear 3030 cartridge filter, SP32102EE Tristar 1 HP 2-speed pump,
    Universal H-Series Low NOx H400FDN (400K BTU) heater, SWG = Hayward Aqua
    Rite with Turbo Cell 9, and a Navigator XL cleaner
    Ground break 7/12/2013 Filled 8/6/2013

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    If you want to heat the pool quickly, get a 400k BTU heater. It will use the same amount of gas, but do it faster.

    You would run the pump on low speed which uses 1/4 the electricity as high speed to move half the water. Only use high to vacuum.

    Larger filter will not hurt anything. Just costs more to buy and replace cartridges. Even with a 100sqft filter you may only need to clean a couple times a year.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    zephard's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    What do you think the PB means by saying light switch? I know the white 250 is a regular bulb and not Led. Does light switch mean literally somewhere outside I will have a light switch for the pool light? Thanks.
    Pool: IG, 8'W x20'L x5' deep, 6000 gallons, Stonescapes Blue Tropics Mini-Pebble gunite pool
    Equipment: Hayward SwimClear 3030 cartridge filter, SP32102EE Tristar 1 HP 2-speed pump,
    Universal H-Series Low NOx H400FDN (400K BTU) heater, SWG = Hayward Aqua
    Rite with Turbo Cell 9, and a Navigator XL cleaner
    Ground break 7/12/2013 Filled 8/6/2013

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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    We have a light switch for our light so I would imagine that is exactly what it means...
    18k: IG: Black Granite Liner: Aspen: 16x33.5: SWG: Polaris 280

    My pool build new-pool-build-in-nh-t60957.html

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    zephard's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    Thanks! where is your light switch at?
    Pool: IG, 8'W x20'L x5' deep, 6000 gallons, Stonescapes Blue Tropics Mini-Pebble gunite pool
    Equipment: Hayward SwimClear 3030 cartridge filter, SP32102EE Tristar 1 HP 2-speed pump,
    Universal H-Series Low NOx H400FDN (400K BTU) heater, SWG = Hayward Aqua
    Rite with Turbo Cell 9, and a Navigator XL cleaner
    Ground break 7/12/2013 Filled 8/6/2013

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    zephard's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    The TF100 test kit, the article on this website about test kits has links to an East coast and West coast option. They take me to different websites where I can order. Are the kits the same or different for those areas?

    PB said:
    Bigger filter means less cleaning and replacing it - so less maintenance time. I am good with that!
    Pump: He doesn't think the cost of the 2 speed will be worth the few amps we save since we don't have any extra features on the pool.
    Heater: He does think the heater is worth upgrading and I think we will do that.

    Thanks for all the input so far!
    Pool: IG, 8'W x20'L x5' deep, 6000 gallons, Stonescapes Blue Tropics Mini-Pebble gunite pool
    Equipment: Hayward SwimClear 3030 cartridge filter, SP32102EE Tristar 1 HP 2-speed pump,
    Universal H-Series Low NOx H400FDN (400K BTU) heater, SWG = Hayward Aqua
    Rite with Turbo Cell 9, and a Navigator XL cleaner
    Ground break 7/12/2013 Filled 8/6/2013

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    Same kit from either site. Dave is on the east coast and is working with the vendor on the west coast fit faster shipping times.

    Builder is wrong about the 2 speed. You can easily save 50% of the electricity cost by running on low speed ... that adds up over the years. Of course it depends on how big of an up charge he hits you with.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    zephard's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    Thanks Jason, I will look in to the pump more. Maybe we will even just go with it and upgrade in the future.
    Pool: IG, 8'W x20'L x5' deep, 6000 gallons, Stonescapes Blue Tropics Mini-Pebble gunite pool
    Equipment: Hayward SwimClear 3030 cartridge filter, SP32102EE Tristar 1 HP 2-speed pump,
    Universal H-Series Low NOx H400FDN (400K BTU) heater, SWG = Hayward Aqua
    Rite with Turbo Cell 9, and a Navigator XL cleaner
    Ground break 7/12/2013 Filled 8/6/2013

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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    Quote Originally Posted by zephard
    Thanks! where is your light switch at?
    It is on my panel with the switches and salt water generator controller etc. It is in a box with 2 outlets and a light switch. The box has a clear cover on it.
    18k: IG: Black Granite Liner: Aspen: 16x33.5: SWG: Polaris 280

    My pool build new-pool-build-in-nh-t60957.html

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    How much is your electricity cost and I should be able to create a comparison of the running costs for the 1 speed vs a 2 speed?

    Also what model of Tristar is in the quote?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    zephard's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    Looks like 11.6 cents or so. The model is not stated other than saying Hayward tristar 1hp, 1speed.
    Pool: IG, 8'W x20'L x5' deep, 6000 gallons, Stonescapes Blue Tropics Mini-Pebble gunite pool
    Equipment: Hayward SwimClear 3030 cartridge filter, SP32102EE Tristar 1 HP 2-speed pump,
    Universal H-Series Low NOx H400FDN (400K BTU) heater, SWG = Hayward Aqua
    Rite with Turbo Cell 9, and a Navigator XL cleaner
    Ground break 7/12/2013 Filled 8/6/2013

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    So we usually say that low speed moves 50% of the water for 1/4 the electrical cost. So doubling the runtime on low speed to move the same water ends up saving 50% of power costs. As it turns out, the 2-speed Tristar appears to be even more efficient on low:

    Using $0.116 / kwh

    The SP3210EE Tristar 1-speed (similar to the 2-speed on high), run for 6 hours/day = $34/mo
    The SP32102EE Tristar 2-speed, run for 12 hours/day = $12/mo

    So the 2-speed should save about $22 in electricity every month ... that is pretty significant depending on what they try to upcharge you.

    I am not sure what the "extra features" the builder was talking about that would not take advantage of the low speed.

    I do see that you have a suction cleaner, which may require running on high some of the time.

    As a note, we generally do not see very good reviews for the Navigator. I would recommend the MX-8 or the PoolCleaner 2 ... actually the PoolCleaner 2 requires much less suction so there is a chance it may even work on low speed.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    I agree. I would go with a bigger heater if your planning on heating the pool often And also either a 2 speed or variable speed. The builders get a good deal because of the quantity they buy. You'll probably never be able to get one cheaper thru a pool store. I didn't see any automation?
    13K IG Pool with Raised Spa
    Jandy E Pump- 2HP Variable Speed
    Jandy CV460 Cartridge Filter
    Jandy LXI 40,000 Heater
    Polaris 9300 Robot

  17. Back To Top    #17
    zephard's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    SP321EE HAY - 10 - 3201 1HP 115/230V is the pump.
    Pool: IG, 8'W x20'L x5' deep, 6000 gallons, Stonescapes Blue Tropics Mini-Pebble gunite pool
    Equipment: Hayward SwimClear 3030 cartridge filter, SP32102EE Tristar 1 HP 2-speed pump,
    Universal H-Series Low NOx H400FDN (400K BTU) heater, SWG = Hayward Aqua
    Rite with Turbo Cell 9, and a Navigator XL cleaner
    Ground break 7/12/2013 Filled 8/6/2013

  18. Back To Top    #18
    zephard's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    Jblizzle - thanks for the breakdown.

    Cavjock22, if you have some suggestions, please point me the way, I will be glad to read them.
    Pool: IG, 8'W x20'L x5' deep, 6000 gallons, Stonescapes Blue Tropics Mini-Pebble gunite pool
    Equipment: Hayward SwimClear 3030 cartridge filter, SP32102EE Tristar 1 HP 2-speed pump,
    Universal H-Series Low NOx H400FDN (400K BTU) heater, SWG = Hayward Aqua
    Rite with Turbo Cell 9, and a Navigator XL cleaner
    Ground break 7/12/2013 Filled 8/6/2013

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    Quote Originally Posted by zephard
    SP321EE HAY - 10 - 3201 1HP 115/230V is the pump.
    Pretty sure that is the one I used in the cost analysis.
    FYI, that is actually a 1HP pump with a 1.85 service factor ... so it is really the equivalent of a 1.85 SFHP pump ... that is pretty big.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  20. Back To Top    #20
    zephard's Avatar
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    Re: Getting ready to sign a contract. Does this look good?

    Looks like the same one. Trying to get a price from PB. First response was 200plus to upgrade, so I asked for the actual price.
    Pool: IG, 8'W x20'L x5' deep, 6000 gallons, Stonescapes Blue Tropics Mini-Pebble gunite pool
    Equipment: Hayward SwimClear 3030 cartridge filter, SP32102EE Tristar 1 HP 2-speed pump,
    Universal H-Series Low NOx H400FDN (400K BTU) heater, SWG = Hayward Aqua
    Rite with Turbo Cell 9, and a Navigator XL cleaner
    Ground break 7/12/2013 Filled 8/6/2013

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