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Thread: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

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    CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    Let me start by saying I'm a new pool owner and new to this forum.

    Not sure how I got into this mess and tempted to fill it in. Already had to replace heater and the motherboard for the AquaLogic due to non-functional SWG [which soldering twice didn't fix]. Now those are working, but.....

    So, was using test strips when pool was opened. Cya read in the 0-30 range. finally bought a taylor test kit and it ready 30 or so. Used pool calculator to add CyA to get it up to 80 since I have a SWG. Rechecked, pool was clear, everyting looked great. So, since I wanted to borate, followed the instructions on this site and aerated to bring the TA down from 180 to 80. Used the site pool calculator, and got the borate level to 50. Everything going smoothly---THEN ...

    had an issue with my filter being out for 2 days. Pool guy said to shock with dichlor because his test strips indicated CyA was only 30 and not sufficient. So I followed this forums instructions for shocking but used dichlor [it took 8 bags, but the pool guy said his test for CyA was still low, so I didn't think to question him]. So what I have now is a pool that tests 30 for CyA on my test strips, the pool guys test strips, and Leslie's test strips [they tested it in the store with several types of strips]. BUT the drop test for CyA that I did shows a CyA level of 180.

    The guy at Leslies says just to watch and not add more CyA since he can't figure out the discrepancies in the many, many different strips vs. the drop test [his drop test was very high too]. I don't know what to do. Should I replace some water? The pool is borated so, how am I going to drain it since the borate will kill the grass? The pool is clear, but I'm scared to swim or let my son swim in it if the CyA level is real. Can anyone help?
    10K fiberglass, SWG [T15], Aqua Logic PS8, 1HP UR Pentair WhisperFlo
    St. Charles, IL

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    You are experiencing first hand why we do not recommend test strips...often they are outright misleading.

    If those bags of shock were 1 lb dichlor, that would have added 48 ppm cya to your pool.

    Trust the drop based test, but you are going to have to do a dilution to know what your cya is for sure. Mix half pool water and half cya free (tap water is fine here) and redo the test, then multiply your result by two. Most likely you are around 128 ppm cya.

    Then if your pool is clear and you do not want to do a partial drain/refill, just maintain the FC for the cya level you will measure (per poolcalculator). You will have to be vigilant to not let the FC drop below the minimum.

    I have been backwashing my pool which has had 50 ppm borates for the last two years on my grass and it doesn't seem to cause a problem...however my grass was not great to start with. Doing a quick search of the site, I got this hit that has more users experiences with grass and borates (and chlorine):http://www.troublefreepool.com/effec...***-t1644.html
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    I did the diluted test already, and that is how I came up with the current value of 180 -- which makes sense because it turns out the pool guy added some of my shock to the pool too [I have a box of 24, and there are only 4 left. He said he was using it because his test strips were reading so low. How long will it take for the CyA of 180 to normalize if the pool is not diluted?
    10K fiberglass, SWG [T15], Aqua Logic PS8, 1HP UR Pentair WhisperFlo
    St. Charles, IL

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    The way to reduce cya is to drain/refill. It wont reduce on its own normally.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    The CYA will not break down in your lifetime.

    Two choices: maintain about 20 FC or drain and refill. I doubt the borates will be concentrated enough to kill the grass; 50 ppm is only .005%.

    I've maintained a pool with CYA over 200 by necessity, but I don't recommend it. It means religious FC testing using the FAS-DPD tester every single day and if you do get algae, forget it. It's all over. Your SWG may not like it that high, either.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    Richard may be exaggerating a little, how old are you? CYA does slowly break down in a properly chlorinated pool, but is a VERY slow process, perhaps on the order of 5 or 10 ppm per year. Still the only practical way to reduce it is through water replacement.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    I'm 52 and who has time for this? Started draining the pool. Will drain 50% and replace water, salt, borate, bleach, and whatever else is needed. You have to sign your life away to buy muriatic acid in IL since drug dealers apparently use it to make crack, so hopefully won't need much more of that. I read about the 20% at a time thing, but need to get a move on it. Any last words of wisdom?
    10K fiberglass, SWG [T15], Aqua Logic PS8, 1HP UR Pentair WhisperFlo
    St. Charles, IL

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    I just googled the law on acids in IL, the Chicago Tribune says the reason for recording ID info was 2 attacks on women where acid was thrown in their faces over the last 6 or 7 years. What next must record all purchases of steak knives because I bet more than 2 people in any state have been stabbed by them in the last half decade.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    I live in Central Illinois. Our local Farm and Fleet sells MA and nobody blinks an eye when I buy 4 gallons at a time. Not sure if they have F&F in St Charles, though.
    30000 gallon inground gunite pool
    Intelliflo ic-60 SWG, pentair tagelus sand filter, 1.5 hp whisperflo pump, tf 100 test kit,
    2 kids(tl), 1 mini-dachshund/lab mix(t),
    Central Illinois

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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    Thanks. There is a F&F in DeKalb, but I can get it in town too. I must look like more of a criminal than you! Been draining the pool since 8 PM. It's taking quite a while. only about 1/3 drained at this point. Do you guys think it will be OK if I get the Cya down to 90 or so and just handle the need for a higher FC with the SWG? It took almost a week to get the TA down to 80 with aeration. NOt looking forward to having to do that again.
    10K fiberglass, SWG [T15], Aqua Logic PS8, 1HP UR Pentair WhisperFlo
    St. Charles, IL

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    I would get cya down to 70-80 ppm. Even if your fill TA is high, it won't make much difference.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    Last year I had to sign for acid but not this year. Weird.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    thanks linen and everyone else, 1 more question
    pool is about 60% drained now. I will take it down some more, planning on doing a 66-75% replacement. just tested the tap water and it has this chemistry:
    TH 100, Ph 7.8, TA greater than 240
    and obviously, I'll need to replace a lot of salt. Is it OK to add say 2/3 of the estimated salt and calcium I'll need to the bottom of the pool while it's refilling? Or should i wait until it is totally full to rebalance the chemistry ?

    do I have to start all over again with the aerating and Ph adjustment after it is all full to add the borate again, or can I just add the borate too and as it's filling, and every 6 hours or so add the appropriate amount of acid [using the pool calc for the borate? Or will i need to get the TA and PH finalized after it is full to do the borate thing again? Looking for the quickest way to get things running.
    10K fiberglass, SWG [T15], Aqua Logic PS8, 1HP UR Pentair WhisperFlo
    St. Charles, IL

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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    I would wait until you can run the pump to thoroughly mix the chemicals in the water without them settling at the bottom. Being in a rush might just cause more problems than it is worth.

    I would adjust the pH and TA before adding the borates. Adding only what you know you need and how much you need will be the quickest and safest way to balance the water. Being in a rush usually causes more problems than it fixes.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    Quote Originally Posted by prarielakes2012
    thanks linen and everyone else, 1 more question
    pool is about 60% drained now. I will take it down some more, planning on doing a 66-75% replacement. just tested the tap water and it has this chemistry:
    TH 100, Ph 7.8, TA greater than 240
    and obviously, I'll need to replace a lot of salt. Is it OK to add say 2/3 of the estimated salt and calcium I'll need to the bottom of the pool while it's refilling? Or should i wait until it is totally full to rebalance the chemistry ?

    do I have to start all over again with the aerating and Ph adjustment after it is all full to add the borate again, or can I just add the borate too and as it's filling, and every 6 hours or so add the appropriate amount of acid [using the pool calc for the borate? Or will i need to get the TA and PH finalized after it is full to do the borate thing again? Looking for the quickest way to get things running.
    The safest bet is to refill and get it all balanced before adding salt or borates. Lowering TA especially will hard to adjust with borates in there. Why will you need to add calcium?
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    If the TH of the tap water is 100, won't I need to add calcium?
    10K fiberglass, SWG [T15], Aqua Logic PS8, 1HP UR Pentair WhisperFlo
    St. Charles, IL

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    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    Measure the CH level after it is filled before making any changes to the calcium level. Calcium levels will rise with each water addition since the fill water has it, 100 ppm for you, but it does not leave when water evaporates.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: CyA way high in borated pool. HELP

    thanks everyone. I drained the pool 80% or so. After refilling, cya was 45 or so and just added enough to get it to 70. Must have been over 200 before. Now I'm getting salt in and shocking it. For the first time since opening, I actually can get a FC reading above 0 a few hours after shocking. TH is 100, so will add ca using the pool calc. pool is pristine [except a few earthworms from yesterdays storms]. maybe there is hope for me yet.
    10K fiberglass, SWG [T15], Aqua Logic PS8, 1HP UR Pentair WhisperFlo
    St. Charles, IL

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