Faded Liner

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I am reaching out to you guru folks, providing every little bit of info (real or otherwise) I have scraped together.

During the warranty discovery phase, it was stated in BOLD writing by vinyl liner supplier AND manufacturer, that even having ppm of 6 or more for a 24 hr period, can fade the liner? This is scary...is this because they've now changed to vastly inferior fade resistant inks vs. old lead inks? That's what I was told by my installer: he was told by the vinyl liner supplier that the inks in current liners are NOWHERE as fade resistant as 10-15 yrs ago.

So all the specific low FC tolerance verbiage from the liner suppliers about ppm and solar blanket is making me gun shy about using the solar blanket, unless proven otherwise.

I took a piece of my old liner and the replacemenet liner and put them in super saturated HTH super hypochlorite shock treatment water solution for several weaks...yes, both liners showed discoloration, but they did not fade ANYWHERE near what my actual original pool liner faded? Again, another tidbit..

I guess I have 2 objectives:

1. I am trying to rule OUT the solar blanket as core cause of fading...I realize tremendous benefits using it: reduced evaporation of water, retains heat, heats up pool in the sun; just a marvelous addition to the pool energy/water management. It is an in-ground reel unit, so very easy to use daily. So when the manufacturer advises not using it all the time, I should take heed? Replacing the liner is a huge and costly undertaking.

2. Actually determining why the liner faded so as not to repeat.

3. Recommendations for test kit using drops please?
 
That 6ppm of FC likely assumes 0ppm of CYA ... it is not true if you have 80ppm of CYA in the water. Unfortunately the relationship between CYA and FC is not understood by those in the pool industry even though it was proven in the 1970s.

1. The solar blanket in and of itself is not causing a problem. Elevated FC or very low pH could cause problems, regardless of the presence of the blanket.
2. No idea, but sub-par manufacturing seems most likely given the information we have.
3. Recommended Test Kits ... the Speedstir with a TF100 is hands down the best value.
 
agm247 said:
Yes, liner was replaced under warranty, but NO CONCLUSION as to why...
Click to expand...
This statement tells you all you need to know. You can bet that if it was anything except a defective liner they wouldn't have honored the warranty. And if they could have blamed it on the solar cover you can bet they would have. They knew it was defective and replaced it.

Get yourself a K-2006 test kit and record the levels as you take them.
 
So all the basic water chemistry tests done my local pool store (drop kit), it would for sure indicate any extraneous level of something that could cause accelerated fading...TA, PH, FC, etc?

I have read more about the fundamental chemical reactions going on with a SWG, free chlorine, aeration of CO2, etc...is there any fundamental chemistry (or chemical byproducts) that my solar cover could be "trapping" and not seen by the basic drop kit test done at my local pool store?

With a SWG system, it runs a certain % regardless of any feedback mechanism...so clearly, it is possible for something to keep building if not watched closely....I just want to make sure there is anything under the radar causing accelerated fading that I need to pay attention to.
 
So...start of season, free chlorine ppm in the 2.5 range. I left the solar blanket on longer than normal last week, took a water sample to local pool store, tested 4 ppm.

So how exactly can ppm RISE with almost no pool use and good CYA, etc?

Seems to me the free chlorine is not being consumed with lack of pool use, solar blanket keeping pool water very clean of organics and blocking a lot of chlorine busting sun rays??

So is the blanket causing RISING ppm levels???
 
I know for a fact my CL is above 6ppm , right now. It was 11 ppm when I left this morning and my CYA is about 30. I have a small algae bloom on my ladder and I am solving it.

As for the old liner... did it fade above the water line... or below the water line... or both?

I would think high CL could fade a liner below the water line only.
 
completely below the water...so, totally a water based fading; above water liner, looked excellent.

I've always suspected the blanket on a SWG pool is causing ppm to rise slowly as chlorine is not being consumed, yet SWG keeps pumping out chlorine on it's regular % schedule, regardless of any feeedback chlorine loop of actual water chemistry.

Looking for any other insight?

I will have to lower my % SWG to lower chlorine use with my solar blanket protocol.
 
All I know if I used a solar cover for years and had no fading issues. I do know I damaged my liner (bleached colors, wrinkles) with chemicals dumped on the floor.

I am going to assume your liner faded due to manufacturing related issues (wrong ink for print?).

Millions of people use solar covers everyday and I have not heard of any issue like this.
 
Did you use the solar blanket a very high % of the time...every night, but sometimes days in a row if say very cloudy or cold?

I have an in ground reel unit, very easy to unroll/re-roll, so the tremendous benefits of the solar blanket are extracted.

I "think" the liner ink was poor quality, but not 100.0% sure, so when I see rising ppm with solar blanket on, makes we wonder whether indeed it is causing rising ppm, which over time, will fade liner prematurely.

So can you explain the rising ppm level I noted above?
 
1. I keep seeing test results via test strips. I always toss those out as inaccurate. I'd vote the FC level was about the same at all times, but inaccurately read.

2. If it were anything but a design defect the manufacture would deny the warrenty.

3. I've used solar cover for weeks at end, with a FC level of 10 and a CYA level of 30. No fading here

4. Here's an interesting read.....
http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/best-gu ... chart.html
 

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Of course the FC level is going to rise with a cover, no use and the SWG running ... IF ... you have the SWG setting too high. Low the setting and less FC will be generated and it will not rise. But, when you take the cover off and start to use the pool, you will have to either raise the SWG output or supplement with bleach.
 
We promise it is possible for chlorine to keep rising with a solar blanket on and the SWG running. The sun is the main "consumer" of chlorine and the blanket blocks the majority of the rays. If the SWG isn't turned down (or turned off at times), it will produce more chlorine than is being consumed.....thus causing an increase of FC's.
 
Don't twist our words. Yes it is possible for the FC to rise with the cover on ... BUT this will NOT cause fading unless the FC gets to be VERY VERY high ... and that is what everyone has repeatedly told you.

Based on this statement from you:
agm247 said:
highest ppm 4-5 once, CYA always 80-100 ppm
Click to expand...
Your FC never got high enough to cause a fading problem.

For reference, fading would not have become a concern until you were up around Mustard Algae Shock levels for an extended period of time. Assuming your CYA is 80ppm (low end of your data), that would require FC up around 44ppm ... for an extended period of time.

I am failing to understand why you will not accept that it was a manufacturer problem.
 
Thanks for the fading reference data points...I am just gun shy to have this fading happen again. Same supplier replaced my liner, but the quality of the liner/ink, is unknown, so I am treading carefully re solar blanket regime change.

The liner supplier and an actual vinyl liner manufacturer (separate discussion I had with them re liners), both asked me very specifically if I used the solar blanket both night and day, but never said why??
 
I would [s:37oin8zt]not[/s:37oin8zt] continue to ask them to clarify WHY the solar cover matters. We would be curious to hear specifically what about the cover makes them worry. Keep hounding them until you give you a straightforward answer.

EDIT to remove an extra word
 
But make them tell you that ... and then ask them what FC is too high?
And then ask them if they understand the relationship between the CYA and the FC ... because if they do not, then their answer to what FC is too high does not make any sense.
 

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