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Thread: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

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    deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    my husband, also my pool man, was recently deployed to afghanistan. he has always used TFP and the BBB method. i now in charge of the pool trusted our local pool chain to guide me (i was unfamiliar and afraid to use TFP). i have been battleing our pool for over a month now and am seriously looking into the price of concrete! i have also done everthing the pool store people have told me to do, spending $100.'s of dollars. long story short, in attempts to shock my pool twice, the metals in the water were activated turning the water a rusty color. the first time successfully cleared and no stains remained with the suggested product metal free. this time no results after 2 bottles of metal free .in addition to the 3 bottles of metal free, I have added a 50lb bucket of soda ash, probably 12-15 gal of 8.25% clorox, an algaecide "that will kill all algae in the pool, even black algae",(even though there was no black algae I could see) as instructed by the pool store pro's. i actually drained the pool about 4-6 inches and refilled with new water. we have city water, no heater, and no leaves allowed to remain in the pool. the stain will fade with rubbing lemon on it. I have a TF 100 test kit, filtering 24/7, brushing multiple times a day, the water is light green in color, and the liner and steps remain stained. These are my current chemistry readings, can you help?
    pH 7.2
    FC 20.5
    CC 0
    TA 140
    CYA 100
    IG-vinyl liner, 39,000 gallons, Hayward 1 1/2 hp super pump, Sand filter (not sure on flow)
    Locale - NE Texas

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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    From reading and assuming your test results came from the TF100 test kit and from reading appears to be a non salt water pool I would do the following.

    Your CYA level is way too high and how knows it may be higher than 100 due to the test I believe only reading to 100.

    I would start by draining about a 1/3 of your water and refill and see if that affects your CYA level. At a CYA level of 100 your shock level is 39 and that is a whole lot of bleach. So I would drain about a 1/3 and retest your water. I would try to drain and refill until you can get a CYA level of around 30. A CYA level of 30 in regards to shocking will help out and make your shocking a lot easier.

    Once you have that down I would read the following article on how to shock your pool.

    pool-school/shocking_your_pool

    Before you start to shock make sure your pH level is around 7.2. The lower pH level makes the chlorine more effective. Once you have the pH level down to around 7.2 then start the shock process. If you do not have plenty of reagents and dpd powder right now I would order more as you will use more while shocking since you will need to test the FC level as much as possible during the day. When I was shocking I would try to test every 2-3 hours. The more you test and the more you can keep your water at the proper shock level the quicker it will go. When shocking you dont really need to worry about any other test besides testing for FC and CC. pH test will not be accurate when FC is over 10.

    As always others will come along with more ideas as well. So I would wait for more responses before you go out and do anything.

    Here is my own pool of what it started out as and what it was when I got done following the advice here.

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    You need to get the CYA level down so I would start with the 1/3 drain a couple times and then re check the CYA and see where it is.

    We'll help you while Hubby is over there! Don't worry... it'll be okay.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    Thank you much for the direction! I have drained the pool about a 1/3 the first time and the 2nd time probably too much ( i now have a few wrinkles in my liner). After refilling and running the pump continuously here are my #'s after 24 hrs-
    pH-7.2
    FC-7.5
    CC-0
    TA-90
    CYA-90
    I entered these into the calculator and if reading correctly I should add-
    7 gal 1 qt liquid chlorine (clorox) 8.25% 121 fl oz
    4 lb 1 oz soda ash
    5 lb 14 oz baking soda.
    I have not done so...waiting your response. If this is correct, should I add ALL of this at one time? If not correct, Please tell me my next step. Really appreciate your help!!
    IG-vinyl liner, 39,000 gallons, Hayward 1 1/2 hp super pump, Sand filter (not sure on flow)
    Locale - NE Texas

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    You do not need soda ash, because a pH of 7.2 is fine since it will naturally rise (if you are not using dichlor / trichlor)
    You do not need baking soda, because a TA of 90 is fine.

    You do need to replace about 50% of your water still because the CYA is still way too high.

    What level were you targeting for your FC?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    What they said, one or two more drain cycles and you will have the CYA back in the manageable range, once you get it there stop using those dichlor or trichlor based dry chlorine products that the pool stores love to sell, and you will be well on your way to getting things cleared up and back to having a trouble free pool.

    Ike
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    okay then....draining again. suggested target to shock on TFP calc is 23...? is that my target?
    IG-vinyl liner, 39,000 gallons, Hayward 1 1/2 hp super pump, Sand filter (not sure on flow)
    Locale - NE Texas

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    The FC shock value is a function of the CYA ... so we will not know your target until we know where your CYA ends up. {but, 23ppm would be right for a CYA or 90ppm}

    As was pointed out to me, pH does not always rise ... so it would not hurt to actually test your tap water for pH, TA, CH to get a feel for how your pool may behave as it is topped off.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    shock level depends on CYA level see this chart (there are some rounding differences from the pool calculator, and I think the chart is a bit more aggressive) This is not a one time shot, but a sustained target which you will need the FAS-DPD test to measure

    pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    i have drained the pool at least 1/2 the volume 4 times and 30% or more once. i have not touched it for 2 days and left the pump running 24/7. the color is kinda cloudy-very light green, easily see the bottom. these are the #'s i got this morning. i really had rather not drain it again.......if at all possible....
    pH-7.2
    FC-0
    CC-0
    TA-70
    CYA-80
    as suggested i tested the tap H2O
    pH-8.2
    FC-0
    CC-0
    TA-60
    CYA-20
    IG-vinyl liner, 39,000 gallons, Hayward 1 1/2 hp super pump, Sand filter (not sure on flow)
    Locale - NE Texas

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    harleysilo's Avatar
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    Wow, your CYA must really have been high. It's still high. Also tap water shouldn't have any CYA in it and should have some detectable chlorine. Just curious, why haven't you put Chlorine in the pool over the past 2 days?
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    It does seem strange that your CYA is not dropping very much with each water change. Are you confident in your CYA test results?

    Here are the detailed CYA testing instructions:
    CYA - Cyanuric Acid


    Fill the mixing bottle to the lower mark with pool water. The lower mark may be labeled as 7 ml, 15 ml, or not labeled.
    If the pool water is below 70 degrees, allow the water sample to warm up to room temperature before continuing.
    Continue filling to the upper mark with R-0013. The upper mark may be labeled as 14 ml, or not labeled, or there may not be a mark and you fill to the base of the neck of the bottle.
    Cap and then shake the mixing bottle for 30 seconds.
    Stand outdoors with your back to the sun and hold the view tube at about waist level. If sunlight is not available, find the brightest artificial light you can.
    Looking down into the view tube, slowly pour the mixture from the mixing bottle into the view tube.
    Continue pouring until all traces of the black dot at the bottom of the view tube completely disappear, even after you stare at it for several seconds, or you fill the view tube.
    Reading the result:
    If the view tube is completely full, and you can still see the black dot clearly, your CYA level is zero.
    If the view tube is completely full and the black dot is only partially obscured, your CYA level is above zero but lower than the lowest level your test kit can measure (20 or 30 ppm).
    If the tube is not completely full, look at the scale on the side of the view tube. The labeled mark closest to the liquid level indicates your CYA level.
    If your CYA level is 90 or higher, repeat the test adjusting the procedure as follows:
    Fill the mixing bottle to the lower mark with pool water.
    Continue filling the mixing bottle to the upper mark with tap water.
    Shake briefly to mix.
    Pour off half of the contents of the mixing bottle, so it is again filled to the lower mark.
    Continue the test normally from step 3, but multiply the final result by two.

    Notes

    If you are not confident in your reading, you can pour the solution from the view tube back into the mixing bottle and then try filling the view tube again. You can repeat this portion of the test over and over again for several minutes without affecting the test results.
    This page at Taylor Technologies has photographs which show what the view tube looks like when the test is complete.
    Very rarely, cloudy or murky water can affect the CYA test. To check for this, fill the view tube with straight pool water. If you can still see the black dot clearly, the cloudy/murky water is not affecting the test result.
    View tubes and mixing bottles come in two common sizes. One set requires 7 ml each of pool water and reagent, and reads CYA levels down to 30. The other set uses 15 ml each of pool water and reagent, and reads CYA levels down to 20.
    It is also possible to get a tube with a sliding black dot, Taylor 4088, so that you move the black dot up and down in the sample, instead of pouring the sample into the view tube.
    If you are using the large view tube and know that your CYA level is at least 50, you can use half as much pool water and half as much R-0013 to save on reagent.
    R-0013 contains melamine, which binds to cyanuric acid, forming the white precipitate which turns the sample cloudy.
    The precision of the test, when done correctly, is around plus or minus 15 for levels up to 90 and plus or minus 30 for levels between 100 and 200. Novices often have problems reading the test correctly, and tend to get higher than actual readings.
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    Hello all,
    Wanted to thank you for sending responses to my wife while i am overseas. Wanted to question if she should drain again or let evaporation help with removal of water? In Texas we see alot of evaporation loss over the summer. What is an acceptable level to quit draining pool and letting rain / evaporation correct the rest.

    To answer one question about why she didn't add chlorine is because guy at pool store told her not to because pH at 7.2 would "activate metals in the water". Hope you can continue to help her.

    Again, thanks for all the replies. Would give anything if we had pool over here!
    IG-vinyl liner, 39,000 gallons, Hayward 1 1/2 hp super pump, Sand filter (not sure on flow)
    Locale - NE Texas

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    Just wanted to point out that evaporation does not lower the CYA. You have to physically remove the water to lower the CYA.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    IMHO, she has two choices

    1. drain 50%, fix the wrinkles , refill, test that CYA is near 30 and then start the shock process, pass OCLT then fix the CYA

    2. Start the shock process now with higher FC/ bleach levels

    Both will get her there but the amount of CL is different.
    -- Guy --
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    really confident in my results but willing to try anything so I repeated the CYA using BOTH methods suggested- only difference went out into the sunlight to read-remains 70 at best. also filled view tube totally with pool water black dot can be seen clearly. pool water temp is 84 degrees. as mentioned in initial post, added chlorine at beginning summer and water turned rusty color stained lining, cleared...etc, as husband stated pool store "experts" said i activated the metals in water when i added chlorine. so no chlorine added-waiting for TFP experts to tell me to do so...? thanks again for the help!
    IG-vinyl liner, 39,000 gallons, Hayward 1 1/2 hp super pump, Sand filter (not sure on flow)
    Locale - NE Texas

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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    Quote Originally Posted by smithp
    really confident in my results but willing to try anything so I repeated the CYA using BOTH methods suggested- only difference went out into the sunlight to read-remains 70 at best. also filled view tube totally with pool water black dot can be seen clearly. pool water temp is 84 degrees. as mentioned in initial post, added chlorine at beginning summer and water turned rusty color stained lining, cleared...etc, as husband stated pool store "experts" said i activated the metals in water when i added chlorine. so no chlorine added-waiting for TFP experts to tell me to do so...? thanks again for the help!
    Can you perform a metal test? Can you take pool water and your fill water samples to pool store and have them test for metals?

    Have you read this about metals? pool-school/metal%20stains Sorry i have no first hand experience with them.

    Since you've already done so many drain and refills, why not do it one more time and really lick that CYA issue. It could be the last time you ever have to do a drain/refill, as once you continue with BBB you'll know what chemicals not to use and you can keep your CYA where it needs to be.

    Edit: Tell your husband we are all very happy to help, least we can do, and to stay safe over there.
    18'x43' Sport Pool
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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    I am not a metals expert but I think the pH has something to do with the metals dropping out. If you can vacuum it to waste, it may help. If it is too fine, a sequestrant may be required. Jacks is the brand I hear about most.

    There is a Pool school section on metals.

    All this being said, wait for one of the experts here before adding anything except chlorine.
    -- Guy --
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  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    drained again, managed to get many of the wrinkles out. THANK YOU! #'s this morning- pH 7.2 FC 1 TA 80 CYA 60. yes. i have read pool-school/metal stains, multiple times, that is when i did the lemon test. no metals detected in water, well...according to pool store ALL water has "certain" metals in it... assured me that mine is okay? husband does appreciate everyone as do i, thank you. realize CYA is still high but could it be possible to now start the shocking process?? according to calc target FC to shock is 18, providing i plugged all the #'s in correctly, and suggest adding 8 gal 8.25% chlorox. do i go ahead and add the chlorine? again, thanks everyone for the help!!
    IG-vinyl liner, 39,000 gallons, Hayward 1 1/2 hp super pump, Sand filter (not sure on flow)
    Locale - NE Texas

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    harleysilo's Avatar
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    Re: deployed husband, desperate military spouse

    If you are ready to monitor it all weekend go ahead and do it with the knowledge that with CYA of 60 you'll go through more bleach than you would at a lower CYA. But hey its the first day of summer time to get that pool swim-able, you can continue to get that CYA down over time.

    How's the water looking now?
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