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Thread: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

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    Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Now that we've installed our new 20x40 IG pool, it looks like we used 450kWh + 47 therms more than this same month last year. Ouch! What have you seen your bills do, once you turn on your pool?

    All Pentair:
    Intelliflow VSP pump
    400k BTU heater (for spa, used sparingly)

    One big question: I turned on the spa heater, and watched the gas meter - looks like 2.25 cubic feet per minute of pool heating. Does this make sense?
    Filled 5/1/2013! 36k gallon 20x40 IG with 7x7 spa, FinestFinish, AquaMatic cover, All Pentair: Clean&Clear 520 sqft cartridge filter, Intelliflow 4x160 variable speed pump, 2 HP whisper flow spa jet pump, 400k BTU MasterTemp heater, Letro Platinum pool cleaner, Rainbow 320 chlorine feeder, Pac Fab Bermuda skimmer
    More details: pics-new-pb-20x40-ig-gunite-7x7-spa-7x7-shamu-shelf-t54952.html

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    How long and at speed are you running your pump? Whatever it is, it is probably too long or too fast.

    As for your heater, 400,000 btu/hr = 388 cuft/hr = 6.5 cuft/min.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Here are the speeds:
    Pool: 1800 rpm
    Spa: 2000
    Spillway: 2400
    Jets: 2800
    Heater: 2200
    Cleaner: 2300

    And my current pump program:
    Pool: 5am-5pm
    Pool cleaner robot: 5:30am-6:30am
    Spa: 4:30am-5:00am
    Spillway: 2:30am-4am
    Filled 5/1/2013! 36k gallon 20x40 IG with 7x7 spa, FinestFinish, AquaMatic cover, All Pentair: Clean&Clear 520 sqft cartridge filter, Intelliflow 4x160 variable speed pump, 2 HP whisper flow spa jet pump, 400k BTU MasterTemp heater, Letro Platinum pool cleaner, Rainbow 320 chlorine feeder, Pac Fab Bermuda skimmer
    More details: pics-new-pb-20x40-ig-gunite-7x7-spa-7x7-shamu-shelf-t54952.html

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    I would suggest dropping the pool and spillway down to 1000rpm which is the most efficient. Likely do not need to run the pool for 12 hours either.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    A total of 6-8 hours should be more than enough for everything and most of the run time can be at 1000 RPM as Jason pointed out. Plus, there is no reason to run the spa AND spillover. They accomplish the same thing. I just run my spa in spillover for 30 min in the middle of my pool run. Same thing with the cleaner although I run it all the time during pool mode. So try this schedule:

    Pool: 12pm-5pm @ 1000 RPM
    Pool cleaner robot with spillover: 5:30am-6:30am @ 2400 RPM

    This should cut your bill by a lot.

    A couple of items for you to do and read:

    pool-school/read_before_you_post


    pool-school/pump_run_time
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    I only run my pump 4-6 hours and my pool is crystal clear. I was running it 8 hours until I read Pool School.

    eta - I would run it even less but our pool is surrounded by trees, and we get bugs and debris from being right on the edge of acres and acres of very thick woods.
    10,000 gallon inground, gunite, 500lb sand filter. Brand new to this pool thing.

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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Pool: 12pm-5pm @ 1000 RPM
    Pool cleaner robot with spillover: 5:30am-6:30am @ 2400 RPM
    Thanks for the suggestion! Quick question: Can I run the cleaner robot when the pool isn't running?
    Filled 5/1/2013! 36k gallon 20x40 IG with 7x7 spa, FinestFinish, AquaMatic cover, All Pentair: Clean&Clear 520 sqft cartridge filter, Intelliflow 4x160 variable speed pump, 2 HP whisper flow spa jet pump, 400k BTU MasterTemp heater, Letro Platinum pool cleaner, Rainbow 320 chlorine feeder, Pac Fab Bermuda skimmer
    More details: pics-new-pb-20x40-ig-gunite-7x7-spa-7x7-shamu-shelf-t54952.html

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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by pool mum
    I only run my pump 4-6 hours and my pool is crystal clear. I was running it 8 hours until I read Pool School.

    eta - I would run it even less but our pool is surrounded by trees, and we get bugs and debris from being right on the edge of acres and acres of very thick woods.
    Interesting! Do you have a variable speed pump? If so, what RPM do you run it at? We have a pool cover, so I'm wondering how little we can get by with
    Filled 5/1/2013! 36k gallon 20x40 IG with 7x7 spa, FinestFinish, AquaMatic cover, All Pentair: Clean&Clear 520 sqft cartridge filter, Intelliflow 4x160 variable speed pump, 2 HP whisper flow spa jet pump, 400k BTU MasterTemp heater, Letro Platinum pool cleaner, Rainbow 320 chlorine feeder, Pac Fab Bermuda skimmer
    More details: pics-new-pb-20x40-ig-gunite-7x7-spa-7x7-shamu-shelf-t54952.html

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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Here's what I've seen so far with our Pentair Intelliflow 4x160 pump:

    1000 RPM: 120 Watts
    2000 RPM: 506 Watts
    2200 RPM: 658 Watts
    2800 RPM: 1310 Watts
    Filled 5/1/2013! 36k gallon 20x40 IG with 7x7 spa, FinestFinish, AquaMatic cover, All Pentair: Clean&Clear 520 sqft cartridge filter, Intelliflow 4x160 variable speed pump, 2 HP whisper flow spa jet pump, 400k BTU MasterTemp heater, Letro Platinum pool cleaner, Rainbow 320 chlorine feeder, Pac Fab Bermuda skimmer
    More details: pics-new-pb-20x40-ig-gunite-7x7-spa-7x7-shamu-shelf-t54952.html

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by werd98
    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Pool: 12pm-5pm @ 1000 RPM
    Pool cleaner robot with spillover: 5:30am-6:30am @ 2400 RPM
    Thanks for the suggestion! Quick question: Can I run the cleaner robot when the pool isn't running?
    Yes. Although I notice that the robot stirs up some finer particles, so I like to have the pump running to catch that.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Ok, here's what I'm thinking:
    1) Go from 12 hours (1800 rpm) once a day, to 6 hours (1000 rpm) broken in 2 chunks of 3 hour runtime
    2) Spillway for the spa to "skim", and 30 minutes of pump time to filter
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Filled 5/1/2013! 36k gallon 20x40 IG with 7x7 spa, FinestFinish, AquaMatic cover, All Pentair: Clean&Clear 520 sqft cartridge filter, Intelliflow 4x160 variable speed pump, 2 HP whisper flow spa jet pump, 400k BTU MasterTemp heater, Letro Platinum pool cleaner, Rainbow 320 chlorine feeder, Pac Fab Bermuda skimmer
    More details: pics-new-pb-20x40-ig-gunite-7x7-spa-7x7-shamu-shelf-t54952.html

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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Well your pool is... huge.

    Using about half your kwhs for a 15k pool after optimizing quite a bit, you are doing not too bad.
    32x15 IG Borate+Salt, Pentair VS+SVRS, howard swim pure 40 SWG, Pentair 4000 48sqft DE, Mastertemp 300, Electric Pool Cover, Polaris P93, 4 Kids for Aeration, ;)

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Spillway is spa spillover mode correct? If so, there is no reason to run both spa and spillway. It is basically the same thing. In fact, spa mode really doesn't do much in the way of removing debris but spillway can if it is done at higher speeds so I would ditch spa mode and just run in spillway at a higher RPM.

    Also, just checking but the cleaner mode is without the pump correct? Why does it have an RPM?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Spillway is spa spillover mode correct? If so, there is no reason to run both spa and spillway. It is basically the same thing. In fact, spa mode really doesn't do much in the way of removing debris but spillway can if it is done at higher speeds so I would ditch spa mode and just run in spillway at a higher RPM.
    It makes sense that the speed should be higher, to get the sand & dirt up off the floor. What RPM would you recommend?

    Also, just checking but the cleaner mode is without the pump correct? Why does it have an RPM?
    Good question - here's what we have:
    1 Pentair letro booster pump
    1 Pentair letro platnum pool cleaner
    I think the pool needs to run at the same time as the robot, but I'm not sure. Our PB said the robot tail does the majority of the cleaning by kicking up dirt.
    Filled 5/1/2013! 36k gallon 20x40 IG with 7x7 spa, FinestFinish, AquaMatic cover, All Pentair: Clean&Clear 520 sqft cartridge filter, Intelliflow 4x160 variable speed pump, 2 HP whisper flow spa jet pump, 400k BTU MasterTemp heater, Letro Platinum pool cleaner, Rainbow 320 chlorine feeder, Pac Fab Bermuda skimmer
    More details: pics-new-pb-20x40-ig-gunite-7x7-spa-7x7-shamu-shelf-t54952.html

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Oh, I misunderstood before. You are supposed to run the main pump with the booster pump for pressure side cleaners. When you said robot, I thought you meant an electric stand-alone robot and not a pressure side cleaner.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by werd98
    Quote Originally Posted by pool mum
    I only run my pump 4-6 hours and my pool is crystal clear. I was running it 8 hours until I read Pool School.

    eta - I would run it even less but our pool is surrounded by trees, and we get bugs and debris from being right on the edge of acres and acres of very thick woods.
    Interesting! Do you have a variable speed pump? If so, what RPM do you run it at? We have a pool cover, so I'm wondering how little we can get by with
    Single speed as far as I know - still new to this pool thing. Your pool is 3 1/2 X bigger than mine, so I don't know if 4-6 hrs would cut it for you, but I guess it doesn't hurt to try
    10,000 gallon inground, gunite, 500lb sand filter. Brand new to this pool thing.

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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Oh, I misunderstood before. You are supposed to run the main pump with the booster pump for pressure side cleaners. When you said robot, I thought you meant an electric stand-alone robot and not a pressure side cleaner.
    Ok sounds good. FWIW, here's the manual for what I think we have: http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/KreepyK ... inumOM.pdf

    What RPM would you recommend we run the pool while the cleaner is going?
    Filled 5/1/2013! 36k gallon 20x40 IG with 7x7 spa, FinestFinish, AquaMatic cover, All Pentair: Clean&Clear 520 sqft cartridge filter, Intelliflow 4x160 variable speed pump, 2 HP whisper flow spa jet pump, 400k BTU MasterTemp heater, Letro Platinum pool cleaner, Rainbow 320 chlorine feeder, Pac Fab Bermuda skimmer
    More details: pics-new-pb-20x40-ig-gunite-7x7-spa-7x7-shamu-shelf-t54952.html

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Have the cleaner run while the pump is in "pool" mode at 1000 rpm.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Have the cleaner run while the pump is in "pool" mode at 1000 rpm.
    All right, thanks! So here's where I am now:

    Speeds
    Pool: 1000 RPM (=120 Watts)
    Cleaner: 1000 RPM (=120W)
    Spa: 2000 RPM (=506W) - high, to kick up dirt from the bottom
    Spillway: 2000 RPM (=506W) - high, to kick up dirt from the bottom
    Jets: 2800 RPM (=1310W)
    Heater: 2200 RPM (=658W) - does this need to be so high, or maybe even higher?

    Schedule
    Spillway: 3:00 AM - 4:00 AM (late at night, so the water doesn't cool down)
    Spa: 4:30 AM - 4:45 AM (to filter anything left in the water, that didn't get pushed out by the spillover)
    Cleaner: 5:30 AM - 6:30 AM (vacuum before pool's first use)
    Pool: 5:00 AM - 9:00 AM (two separate pool cycles, to spread the chlorination across the day,)
    Pool: 3:00 PM - 7:00 PM (and to have the water be moving during pool usage times)

    Any other tweaks? Once I get this dialed in, it'll be time to move on to chemistry My TF100 kit should arrive today!
    Filled 5/1/2013! 36k gallon 20x40 IG with 7x7 spa, FinestFinish, AquaMatic cover, All Pentair: Clean&Clear 520 sqft cartridge filter, Intelliflow 4x160 variable speed pump, 2 HP whisper flow spa jet pump, 400k BTU MasterTemp heater, Letro Platinum pool cleaner, Rainbow 320 chlorine feeder, Pac Fab Bermuda skimmer
    More details: pics-new-pb-20x40-ig-gunite-7x7-spa-7x7-shamu-shelf-t54952.html

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    Re: Just got my PG&E bill ... ouch!

    Thread is bookmarked...I have a similar situation...so curious if 2 run times spread across the day are better than one long one !!
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

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