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Thread: Which Pump???????????????

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    Which Pump???????????????

    OK, I am going to eat my own arm shortly.

    simple question;

    can someone please give me a suggestion for replacing my pool pump, considering these perimeters:

    In ground pool
    90 cubic Meters
    Salt
    Pump house is within 10 ft of the pool - about 2ft above water level of pool
    Gets used for 3 months of the year
    Finally - I live in the UK
    budget not considered, although spending money on a low energy use pump should be able to be amortised with 3months use per year, so my guess is this is not worth the spend.

    I'm just completely confused by the choice and would simply like a quiet, efficient, long lasting, self priming pump!!

    thanks for your help.....will stop gnawing now...
    SWG - Exterior
    12x5M
    90,000 Ltrs /24,000US gallons
    Pool Pilot Digital
    Hayward Max Flo VS
    Polaris 280
    Vinyl liner
    Sand Filter

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    Most of us here have no idea what pumps are available in the UK. That said, there are other UK folks here who may be able to help.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    Ok... Forget the UK thing for a second as what we have here is mostly identical to what you have in the US, just with silly prices if it's from the US
    SWG - Exterior
    12x5M
    90,000 Ltrs /24,000US gallons
    Pool Pilot Digital
    Hayward Max Flo VS
    Polaris 280
    Vinyl liner
    Sand Filter

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    OK, so I think I have narrowed it down to the following - needs to be self priming:

    Pentair Superflo P-SFL-153 1.5HP (what's the difference with Whisperflo?)
    or
    Waterco Hydrotuf 1.5HP (Australian?)
    or
    suggestion?>> Hayward Maxflow 2

    Any thoughts out there?
    SWG - Exterior
    12x5M
    90,000 Ltrs /24,000US gallons
    Pool Pilot Digital
    Hayward Max Flo VS
    Polaris 280
    Vinyl liner
    Sand Filter

  5. Back To Top    #5
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    Why such a large pump? The Superflo 1 HP would be plenty big for that pool.

    The Superflo's are a little cheaper than the Whsiperflo's and bit less efficient too at higher flow rates. However, the Superflo up rated 1 HP has about the same efficiency at a lower flow rate than the Whisperflo up rated 1 HP so once you get small enough in the pump line, the Superflo is just as efficient.

    There are several on the forum that own one and are highly recommended.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    I like mine ... sounds like even the 1 hp is more than you would actually need.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    I was advised (by local pool man) that my current pump was limit for the pool size and use (the pump is a 1HP Astra Pool Sena) as this pool is in southern France where summer use during the months of July/August is high, as well as being in full sun all day, with temps averaging 35C/95F. The pool itself, unheated, sits at around 28C/83F, so the pump and chlorinator (pool pilot digital) run for approx 12hrs per day. He - the pool man - suggested I put in a 1.5hp pump....but happy to put in 1HP if you think this is enough, especially in light of the electricity costs!!

    picture of pump info below, although can't work out HP, but the serial tells me it's the 1HP.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    SWG - Exterior
    12x5M
    90,000 Ltrs /24,000US gallons
    Pool Pilot Digital
    Hayward Max Flo VS
    Polaris 280
    Vinyl liner
    Sand Filter

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    Unless I am losing something in translation here (Two countries divided by a common language, ...), it seems likely that a 2 speed 1 HP pump would handle your requirements nicely. This assumes a somewhat typical layout that your pad is not located an excessive distance from the pool, no unusual water flow requirements, no solar heater, or water feature (fountain, water fall, etc.) that needs flow to operate. Note a 2 speed pump will generally pump about 1/2 the volume on low as they do on high, but using only 1/4 of the electricity, therefore making longer run times more practical. Also note that in our experience, most pool owners run their filters much longer than is needed assuming the water is well balanced.

    Ike

    p.s. as a revised thought, since you have a 50 hz electrical system your pumps will spin slower than pumps in the U.S. on a 60 hz electrical system, I am not sure how this effects flow, but might be a reason to move up one pump size.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    Thanks Isaac for that. Yes 50hz cycle, but not sure that this has any effect on pump speed?.

    The current pump is either on or off....Would I be right in saying that the Superflo can run at two speeds? Is this a matter of flicking a switch? what is the reduction in waterflow from one speed to the other, as I note that currently my Pool Pilot will not tollerate anything but a full return of all the water via the cell (I have a bypass valve). Anything less than that and the alarm light comes on telling me that the flow rate is too low.
    SWG - Exterior
    12x5M
    90,000 Ltrs /24,000US gallons
    Pool Pilot Digital
    Hayward Max Flo VS
    Polaris 280
    Vinyl liner
    Sand Filter

  10. Back To Top    #10
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    Flow rate is proportional to RPM which is proportional to the line frequency. So a 50 Hz pump will have an RPM around 2808 (see motor label) and the flow rate will be about 46 GPM on 1.5" (~40mm) plumbing (instead of 56 GPM for 3450 RPM). Which is plenty of flow rate for that size pool. The only issue could be with a high solar installation.

    Also, the Superflo is a two speed pump and flow rate on low speed is half of high speed so in this case about 23 GPM. But you should be able to adjust the bypass of the SWG such that it doesn't alarm.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Flow rate is proportional to RPM which is proportional to the line frequency. So a 50 Hz pump will have an RPM around 2808 (see motor label) and the flow rate will be about 46 GPM on 1.5" (~40mm) plumbing (instead of 56 GPM for 3450 RPM). Which is plenty of flow rate for that size pool. The only issue could be with a high solar installation.

    Also, the Superflo is a two speed pump and flow rate on low speed is half of high speed so in this case about 23 GPM. But you should be able to adjust the bypass of the SWG such that it doesn't alarm.
    bypass fully closed at mo, when pump is full on, so cannot bypass the SWG in any way otherwise flow to SWG is insufficient and alarm goes off.


    with 1.5" pipes what flow rate should I be looking for? Is the current (as you've worked it out) 46GPM sufficient?

    Also with regards to the Pool Pilot digital then the "46GPM" that you calculate would appear to be the minimum flow that it will accept without setting off the alarm. The manual for the Pool Pilote suggests that 15GPM is the minimum for it to operate, so is it possible that the current pump is not doing a proper job and that the "46GPM" that you calculate is more like just over 15GPM? If I take you figure of 46GPM as correct then either the pool pilot is incorrectly set up (it's new) or there's something blocking the return to the Pool Pilot. If on the other hand this is correct then this would of course mean that running the pump at a slower speed would be unusable, so not much point in getting a dual speed pump.
    SWG - Exterior
    12x5M
    90,000 Ltrs /24,000US gallons
    Pool Pilot Digital
    Hayward Max Flo VS
    Polaris 280
    Vinyl liner
    Sand Filter

  12. Back To Top    #12
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    First, let me be clear. 46 GPM is for the Superflo, not your current pump although they should be close.

    But if you are getting an alarm without bypassing any water (i.e. bypass valve closed), then yes, something is seriously wrong with your setup.

    What is your clean filter pressure and how high is the filter gauge above the pool water level?

    Also, how many skimmers, main drains, and returns are in the pool?

    Can you post a picture of the equipment?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    Mark, thanks for your reply, will try to give the info that you mention;

    Clean filter after backwash sits in the green area. not sure of PSI but around 14-16PSI would that be right? - basically in the last 3rd of the green area on dial (photo below)
    the filter is probably about 3ft above water level at it's base and gauge is on top
    There are two surface skimmers, 1 bottom of pool drain/filter and two returns

    Photo below is of setup as it was originally when first put in, the only thing that has changed is where the gap (in the piping on the right) is in this photo has been replaced with Pool Pilot Horse shoe system with cell.

    I have a separate pump for the Polaris 280
    Attached Images Attached Images
    SWG - Exterior
    12x5M
    90,000 Ltrs /24,000US gallons
    Pool Pilot Digital
    Hayward Max Flo VS
    Polaris 280
    Vinyl liner
    Sand Filter

  14. Back To Top    #14
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    Based on the picture, the flow rate out of the returns should be pretty strong. Is that the case?

    Is the pump not working now?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    yes, flow is strong back into the pool. both jets push water 3ft into the pool. distance from return in pump house to the side of the pool and the return there is about 30ft, as the pump house is at the skimmer end of the pool.

    The pump is running - after a fashion.... It ran dry last year, for how long no one knows....could have been 3 weeks.... Now when it switches on via the timer, you get motor buzz, but not always pump action. A tap with my toe to the pump and the pump fires up....Or a switch off then on again sometimes does the trick....
    SWG - Exterior
    12x5M
    90,000 Ltrs /24,000US gallons
    Pool Pilot Digital
    Hayward Max Flo VS
    Polaris 280
    Vinyl liner
    Sand Filter

  16. Back To Top    #16
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    Ok so it sounds like you are getting plenty of flow rate. But now I don't understand your comment about the SWG alarm. Can you give me a little more detail about when the SWG alarms and when it doesn't?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    If I so much as open a crack the valve that bypasses the SWG - so in the photo above the orange valve second from the bottom of the picture and furthest to the left - then the Pool Pilot goes into "low flow" alarm mode. - In the photo above it's fully open as are all the valves.
    SWG - Exterior
    12x5M
    90,000 Ltrs /24,000US gallons
    Pool Pilot Digital
    Hayward Max Flo VS
    Polaris 280
    Vinyl liner
    Sand Filter

  18. Back To Top    #18
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    14 PSI seems much too high for that plumbing setup so I am wondering if there is a blockage in the cell somewhere. Do you remember if the filter pressure changed by a lot when you fully opened the bypass valve?

    Also, did the configuration of the SWG change with the Pool Pilot. The cell in the picture looks to be different than the pool pilot which is normally installed like this:



    So if you have a second bypass then that may be part of the problem.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    Hi Mark, the Pool Pilot is exactly as you have it pictured and slips into the gap on the photo where there was an old cell (in the photo the cell is sitting on the return splitter but not plumbed).

    Pressure does not change when you bypass the SWG. I am assuming it's 14PSI as I am reading the dial in the first photo - the inner scale being in PSI and outer being in BAR and the needle normally sits on the 1 BAR mark = 14PSI

    The bypass at the bottom of your photo of the PP is for too much pressure and only kicks is when the pressure is too high for the cell. This hasn't yet been activated.
    SWG - Exterior
    12x5M
    90,000 Ltrs /24,000US gallons
    Pool Pilot Digital
    Hayward Max Flo VS
    Polaris 280
    Vinyl liner
    Sand Filter

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Which Pump???????????????

    I can't help wondering if the problem is in the flow sensor
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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