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Thread: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

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    doc.mosi's Avatar
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    How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    Hey all,

    I've got a hayward pump filter combo. Was working well for the last three years. This year I set up the system, plug in the pump (110) standard plug.... nothing happens...well it tripped a breaker, then I reset, then tried again, nothing happens.

    A bit of a hot smell, and the cord warmed slightly.

    I need help on troubleshooting this...I'm fairly handy, but haven't ever had to troubleshoot the pump/motor combo.

    I'm heading out to take some pics right now and will add to this thread as soon as I have more information.

    Thanks in advance.
    18ft Round Intex Metal Frame, 7000gal, 3/4HP pump, 100lb sand filter, TF-100 Test Kit, through the wall skimmer, Baqua convert...now BBB all the way. :)

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    doc.mosi's Avatar
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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    Okay...took a bit to figure out how to resize pictures for upload.

    Here are three shots of the pump / motor.

    Any guidance is appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Dave

    [attachment=1:1dm325h6]20130607_192753_opt.jpg[/attachment:1dm325h6]
    [attachment=2:1dm325h6]20130607_192737_opt.jpg[/attachment:1dm325h6]
    [attachment=0:1dm325h6]20130607_192805_opt.jpg[/attachment:1dm325h6]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    18ft Round Intex Metal Frame, 7000gal, 3/4HP pump, 100lb sand filter, TF-100 Test Kit, through the wall skimmer, Baqua convert...now BBB all the way. :)

    Ugly Drum Smoker (UDS), Weber One Touch gold. (I love smoky meat) :) Saving my $$ for a Big Green Egg.

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    Any other noise coming from the pump? Can you turn the motor shaft manually?
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    doc.mosi's Avatar
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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    No noise that I hear. I'm not sure how to get to the motor shaft. It's seems I'd need to take the pump off somehow? Do I just start taking out all the bolts around the pump impeller housing?
    18ft Round Intex Metal Frame, 7000gal, 3/4HP pump, 100lb sand filter, TF-100 Test Kit, through the wall skimmer, Baqua convert...now BBB all the way. :)

    Ugly Drum Smoker (UDS), Weber One Touch gold. (I love smoky meat) :) Saving my $$ for a Big Green Egg.

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    Other end. Look at the cap at the bottom of the label (opposite the pump basket). There should be a protective plastic cover that if removed will expose the back end of the motor shaft.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    Breakers trip for a reason,over current. Short to ground,loose neutral. I would check your connections. Since you plug it in, maybe you pulled it hard enough on the motor end and the wires inside the motor became loose.

    Is it a dedicated circuit? Since its 110v, do you have other loads on same circuit making breaker trip? Check it out....turn off breaker first.
    20,000 gallon viking fiberglass pool w/aqua comfort heat pump, pentair whisperflo pump 1.5hp autopilot dig-220 swg w/RC42 cell (42,000), pg2000 fiber optic lights
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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    I'll be checking for that cover and see if I can turn the motor shaft.

    The circuit is GFCI and is not dedicated to the pump. Never had problems before...but this made me remember that we had some electrical done in the house this winter. Box was upgraded, in part so I could get a dedicated circuit for the pool (on the to-do list, right behind get the pool up and running).

    The cord doesn't get pulled on, however the I've owned the pump for 4 years and bought it used...who knows. I'll check that out too.
    18ft Round Intex Metal Frame, 7000gal, 3/4HP pump, 100lb sand filter, TF-100 Test Kit, through the wall skimmer, Baqua convert...now BBB all the way. :)

    Ugly Drum Smoker (UDS), Weber One Touch gold. (I love smoky meat) :) Saving my $$ for a Big Green Egg.

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    After rereading your post it is a good idea like others said to check for an obstruction also
    20,000 gallon viking fiberglass pool w/aqua comfort heat pump, pentair whisperflo pump 1.5hp autopilot dig-220 swg w/RC42 cell (42,000), pg2000 fiber optic lights
    hayward sand filter(medium is echoglass)
    Blue diamond robot cleaner

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    If you had a upgrade in the service or even just had a new panel installed sometimes electricians do not reconnect the correct wires back to same breakers. Maybe they hooked up a 20 amp circuit to a 15 amp breaker. I would put the pump on a dedicated circuit if I were you
    20,000 gallon viking fiberglass pool w/aqua comfort heat pump, pentair whisperflo pump 1.5hp autopilot dig-220 swg w/RC42 cell (42,000), pg2000 fiber optic lights
    hayward sand filter(medium is echoglass)
    Blue diamond robot cleaner

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    Okay..so here is a picture of the rear of the motor. (with the small circular cap removed)

    [attachment=0:3m890euf]20130607_204035_opt.jpg[/attachment:3m890euf]

    Put screwdriver in the slot as it appears it would work to turn the shaft...nothing....I put a fair amount of effort and it seems to me that it should turn very easily.

    As for the electrical, it was a new panel. The electrician was a close friend (someone I trust) and he actually divided some of the circuits that were wired incorrectly, and I know he placed 12 AWG on 20Amp and 14AWG on 15 Amp breakers. That being said...who knows what happens within the walls, so dedicated circuit will be moved up the list.

    Thanks for the replies so far.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    18ft Round Intex Metal Frame, 7000gal, 3/4HP pump, 100lb sand filter, TF-100 Test Kit, through the wall skimmer, Baqua convert...now BBB all the way. :)

    Ugly Drum Smoker (UDS), Weber One Touch gold. (I love smoky meat) :) Saving my $$ for a Big Green Egg.

    Things I use daily:

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    I don't see a ground wire hooked up to that lug. Lol....got to bond the grounds together.
    20,000 gallon viking fiberglass pool w/aqua comfort heat pump, pentair whisperflo pump 1.5hp autopilot dig-220 swg w/RC42 cell (42,000), pg2000 fiber optic lights
    hayward sand filter(medium is echoglass)
    Blue diamond robot cleaner

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    I understand it needs to be grounded...but don't understand the rest of what you are saying. Nothing has changed, at least not on purpose, with the wiring on the motor itself. It's always had just a "normal" wire out the back with a three prong plug. You can see the cover where the wire leaves the back of the motor in the picture on the top right. The wire is just out of the picture.
    18ft Round Intex Metal Frame, 7000gal, 3/4HP pump, 100lb sand filter, TF-100 Test Kit, through the wall skimmer, Baqua convert...now BBB all the way. :)

    Ugly Drum Smoker (UDS), Weber One Touch gold. (I love smoky meat) :) Saving my $$ for a Big Green Egg.

    Things I use daily:

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by ethany
    I don't see a ground wire hooked up to that lug. Lol....got to bond the grounds together.
    That is a bonding lug and should not be tied to the electrical grounding system. It should however be attached (bonding) to all of the metal within 5 feet of the pool, decking, and also to the water.

    Quote Originally Posted by doc.mosi
    I understand it needs to be grounded...but don't understand the rest of what you are saying. Nothing has changed, at least not on purpose, with the wiring on the motor itself. It's always had just a "normal" wire out the back with a three prong plug. You can see the cover where the wire leaves the back of the motor in the picture on the top right. The wire is just out of the picture.
    Did yours have nothing attached? Normally an 8 gauge wire attaches that to the stuff I mentioned above. It is called "bonding".
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    Since you have a 3 prong plug end,the grnd wire is hooked up internally so the lug is not a huge deal but better to over ground to be safe. I see a lug I throw a grnd wire on it.

    As far as ur buddy goes,did he check the recept./ gfci by the pump? Nobody is perfect, I would check the wiring in the panel and see if everything makes good contact. Doesn't hurt.

    Probably not electrical problem but since some work was done this past winter it's possible
    20,000 gallon viking fiberglass pool w/aqua comfort heat pump, pentair whisperflo pump 1.5hp autopilot dig-220 swg w/RC42 cell (42,000), pg2000 fiber optic lights
    hayward sand filter(medium is echoglass)
    Blue diamond robot cleaner

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    No...never had any other wires attached to the pump....that being said....I bought it used. Hooked it up myself and let er rip... :O

    He didn't check out anything...it was just a panel change with moving a few circuits to different breakers... i.e. a 12 gauge wire on 15 amp breaker etc... or something like that....he said it was done incorrectly and fixed it...added two breakers to cover the already existing circuits. (I remember one of them was a double breaker? like two 15 amp in one spot I think).

    So what about the fact that I can't turn the motor shaft, that seem incorrect to me?
    18ft Round Intex Metal Frame, 7000gal, 3/4HP pump, 100lb sand filter, TF-100 Test Kit, through the wall skimmer, Baqua convert...now BBB all the way. :)

    Ugly Drum Smoker (UDS), Weber One Touch gold. (I love smoky meat) :) Saving my $$ for a Big Green Egg.

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    Linen....I don't agree with you about the grounding. I was always told if there's a difference in potential you can get hit.
    20,000 gallon viking fiberglass pool w/aqua comfort heat pump, pentair whisperflo pump 1.5hp autopilot dig-220 swg w/RC42 cell (42,000), pg2000 fiber optic lights
    hayward sand filter(medium is echoglass)
    Blue diamond robot cleaner

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by ethany
    Linen....I don't agree with you about the grounding. I was always told if there's a difference in potential you can get hit.
    That lug you see on the ops pump is a bonding lug. Bonding is ensuring that everything in the vicinity of the pool is a at an equipotential. Yes, the equipment should be grounded, but that is done through the ground prong of the plug. Grounding is separate from bonding. See section 680.26 from the NEC code. It can be viewed here: http://www.erbinspections.com/Forms%...tallations.pdf

    This is a very confusing subject for many who have not heard of bonding before.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by doc.mosi
    So what about the fact that I can't turn the motor shaft, that seem incorrect to me?
    Yes that is incorrect. Some pumps have a flat section on the shaft that you can get a wrench on and "break the shaft lose".
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    I stand corrected...your absolutely right.

    Don't want to get anyone killed!
    20,000 gallon viking fiberglass pool w/aqua comfort heat pump, pentair whisperflo pump 1.5hp autopilot dig-220 swg w/RC42 cell (42,000), pg2000 fiber optic lights
    hayward sand filter(medium is echoglass)
    Blue diamond robot cleaner

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    Re: How to troubleshoot Pump / motor?

    If you can't break the shaft loose, it's going to be time to take the thing apart. Start from the pump basket (the wet end) and go slow.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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