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Thread: Please help select a pump.

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    Please help select a pump.

    We are finalizing our build (pics in another thread).

    Need to decide on a pump. Pool is 16' x 34'. 4' - 8' deep and we have a waterfall feature.

    1. Hayward Super Pump 1hp - $399
    2. Hayward Super Pump 1.5hp - $449
    3. Hayward Super Pump VS - $799
    4. Hayward Ecostar / Ecostar SVRS - $2,600

    Electricity cost in Toronto is:
    7.8 ˘/kWh/first 600 kWhs used per 30 days
    9.1 ˘/kWh/remaining kWhs

    No idea why the last one is so freaking expensive!

    Pool details are in my sig.
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24” Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    The EcoStar can be had for much less than that:
    http://www.poolsupplyworld.com/Hayward- ... QgodFlUA3g

    Any reason for focusing on Hayward?

    But given your electricity rates, you may be better off with a two speed. The Pentair Superflo is similar to the Superpump but has better pricing in a two speed.

    http://www.amazon.com/Pentair-340042-St ... s=Superflo
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    Based on the HECK I am going through with my PB - what other accessories will you have, i.e. HEATER, etc.

    My thoughts are the 1 HP is a bit undersized, considering you have a Waterfall and go with a 1.5 HP two speed...agree with the above on HAYWORD, but I have friends in Toronto and know some of our US Brands are hard to get.

    But I am by no means an expert, so the EXPERTS will certainly give their much better advice.
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    Pool builder is using Hayward only. Pricing is Canada is a rip off.

    The other equipment is:

    •Hayward S244T2 24” Sand Filter
    •Hayward 1hp Super Pump 2 speed
    •Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu, Electronic & Digital Natural Gas Heater
    •AquaRite Salt Chlorine Generating System
    •Aqualamp Lighting System (2 x LED) w/ remote
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24” Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    Well at least the filter is sized correctly. I am confused now though. Are you going to have 2 pumps? Since you are now listing a 2-speed 1HP.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  6. Back To Top    #6
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    I would stick with the 1 HP Superpump 2 speed if that is your "new" circulation pump. It is a good pump and efficient.

    How big is the waterfall feature (i.e. width)? If it isn't too big, the Superpump should be fine. Even a 5' waterfall only needs about 50 GPM for a 1/2" depth. It kind of depends on the look you are after.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    We will have just one pump. I need to select and pay the difference in cost. His quote has the Hayward 1hp Super Pump 2 speed as the one costed in.

    Should I upgrade to the Hayward Super Pump VS - $799? I assume a 2 speed and VS are different?

    The waterfall is about 3 ft in width, not too big at all.

    Pics of the pool build are here - finally-new-build-in-toronto-on-t60291.html
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24” Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    With your low power cost, you may never recoup $800 in electricity savings of the VS over the 2-speed.

    Stick with the 1HP 2-speed.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  9. Back To Top    #9
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Stick with the 1HP 2-speed.
    +1
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    With your low power cost, you may never recoup $800 in electricity savings of the VS over the 2-speed.

    Stick with the 1HP 2-speed.
    Thanks!!

    Please help me understand.. 2 speed means that it can run at 1hp and at what speed?

    Whereas VS can be adjusted from zero to 1.5hp?
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24” Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    The HP does not matter much.

    I think the SuperPump VS at max speed is actually pretty similar to the 1HP 2-speed on high (3450 RPM) as far as the flow rate.

    The 2-speed on low (1725 RPM) would move 1/2 the water as on high, but only use 1/4 the amount of electricity. So even running double the time to move the same water saves 50% of the electricity.

    The VS could be dialed down to an even lower RPM to save some more electricity. But, the electrical savings between the VS at say 1000RPM and the 2-speed at 1725 is not as significant as when compared to running a single speed or the 2-speed on high.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    The HP does not matter much.

    I think the SuperPump VS at max speed is actually pretty similar to the 1HP 2-speed on high (3450 RPM) as far as the flow rate.

    The 2-speed on low (1725 RPM) would move 1/2 the water as on high, but only use 1/4 the amount of electricity. So even running double the time to move the same water saves 50% of the electricity.

    The VS could be dialed down to an even lower RPM to save some more electricity. But, the electrical savings between the VS at say 1000RPM and the 2-speed at 1725 is not as significant as when compared to running a single speed or the 2-speed on high.
    Thanks! So If I just stay with the quote he had for me, I should not upgrade or change the pump then:

    •Hayward S244T2 24” Sand Filter
    •Hayward 1hp Super Pump 2 speed
    •Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu, Electronic & Digital Natural Gas Heater
    •AquaRite Salt Chlorine Generating System
    •Aqualamp Lighting System (2 x LED) w/ remote
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24” Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    I would not change the pump.

    Are you getting the T-15 cell with the SWG? We would recommend the larger 40k cell over the 25k cell.

    If you "must" upgrade something, bumping up the filter to a 27" would reduce the frequency of having to clean it ... although the 24" should actually be fine with your short seasons.

    EDIT: or consider the ProLogic (probably P4 is all you need) automation that includes the SWG controller and would also control the pump timer and speeds and heater and lights. I just got mine in the mail yesterday
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    So.. I just spoke to the pool builder and he said that the 2 speed super pump isn't a good one. He said that the low speed is too low, high would be used only to vacuum and that when its on low, there isn't enough pressure to actually turn on the heater.

    Oddly - he said that they just got the VS pumps in January this year. So... they have been using the speed all these years, and now it's not ok? Weird.

    He said that the better option would be the 1.5hp VS.

    What do you think?
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24” Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    Me thinks your PB is just trying to up sell you. The Superpump is good pump and has a much longer history than some of the VS pumps he is trying to sell you.

    But he has a point on the heater, do you run your heater all the time (I wouldn't but some people do)? If not, it probably isn't a big deal to run on high just when you use the heater.

    But the Superpump also comes in VS form factor and is much more affordable than the Ecostar. Is that the one he is recommending or the Max-Flo VS? I wouldn't hesitate to go with either one although they really have not been out in the field very long so reliability is somewhat unknown.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    I would triple check that the 2 speed pump won't work on low with the heater...
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Me thinks your PB is just trying to up sell you. The Superpump is good pump and has a much longer history than some of the VS pumps he is trying to sell you.

    But he has a point on the heater, do you run your heater all the time (I wouldn't but some people do)? If not, it probably isn't a big deal to run on high just when you use the heater.

    But the Superpump also comes in VS form factor and is much more affordable than the Ecostar. Is that the one he is recommending or the Max-Flo VS? I wouldn't hesitate to go with either one although they really have not been out in the field very long so reliability is somewhat unknown.
    He is suggesting the Hayward Super Pump VS (Model # SP2600VSP)

    He has quoted $200 for the upgrade from the 2 Speed Super Pump.

    At my electricity rates, how long would it take to re-coup the $200 diff?
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24” Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

  18. Back To Top    #18
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaf77
    He is suggesting the Hayward Super Pump VS (Model # SP2600VSP)
    That is a bit ironic since he said the Superpump is not a good pump. The VS uses the same wet end as the two speed Superpumps.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shaf77
    He has quoted $200 for the upgrade from the 2 Speed Super Pump.

    At my electricity rates, how long would it take to re-coup the $200 diff?
    A little over 60 months of operation which isn't too bad. After that, the VS is more cost effective.

    But I suspect that $200 is a drop in the bucket compared to what you are spending on the pool. Also, if you are planning on solar anytime soon, a VS can help make it easier to optimize the system.

    Also, since you are buying all Hayward equipment, they should be giving you a 3 year warranty. If not, ask for it.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaf77
    He is suggesting the Hayward Super Pump VS (Model # SP2600VSP)
    That is a bit ironic since he said the Superpump is not a good pump. The VS uses the same wet end as the two speed Superpumps.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shaf77
    He has quoted $200 for the upgrade from the 2 Speed Super Pump.

    At my electricity rates, how long would it take to re-coup the $200 diff?
    A little over 60 months of operation which isn't too bad. After that, the VS is more cost effective.

    But I suspect that $200 is a drop in the bucket compared to what you are spending on the pool. Also, if you are planning on solar anytime soon, a VS can help make it easier to optimize the system.

    Also, since you are buying all Hayward equipment, they should be giving you a 3 year warranty. If not, ask for it.
    Thanks. I agree that the $200 is really nothing compared to the rest of the build.

    I will go ahead with the VS pump.

    As for the warranty, he said that he only uses Raypak for heaters. So the pump and filter are Hayward, but the heater is not.
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24” Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Please help select a pump.

    As a recent buyer who WISHES he could UPGRADE to a VS pump for $200 - I second the motion! do it !
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

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