Brand new poster with my test results

[scott.MI]

Re: Morning after our first attempt at the shock process

Whether you scoop it or vacuum it, get the physical debris out of your pool and then continue the shock process. Disregard any advice that says otherwise.

what I exactly said was "The only thing I have to add, can't say that I've seen it mentioned. The shock process itself will not make "the thing" on the bottom just disappear. I think you should vacuum or at the very least brush it and if it re-settles to the bottom its dirt and needs to be vacuumed. This is best done while the chlorine is at shock level."

What I was trying to say in more simple terms was I thought it would be best to do the brushing or vacuuming before she lets the chlorine fall to normal levels. If its algae, you want high chlorine to attack it when it gets stirred up, if its just dirt/sand, no big deal since she was doing the shock process anyways. So am I giving bad advice then? I only got in this thread to help clear her confusion between "bleach" and "liquid chlorine"

I assume maybe buying bleach instead of liquid chlorine is cheaper?

If you check your other topic I had posted a way to compare prices even for different size and different strengths. As long as I wrote it in a way that makes sense to you its pretty easy.

 

[scott.MI]

Re: Morning after our first attempt at the shock process

here's a quick comparison.

So walmart has a case of 2 for 6.47 or (3.24 each) and its 10% and they are 128 oz jugs
128oz X .10 (10%) = 12.8
324/12.8 = 25.31 cents per oz of Sodium Hypochlorite

You spent $40 on 8 gallons ($5 per gallon) Lets say its 12.5% strenth (Don't know that you've ever said) and lets assume they are full gallon bottles (128 oz)

128oz X .125 (12.5%) = 16
5 dollars = 500 cents so...
500/16= 31.25

So in the end.
Your paying 31.25 cents per ounce of Sodium Hypochlorite
I payed 25.31 cents per ounce of Sodium Hypochlorite (At walmart)

Now walmarts not the cheapest for me I can get 12.5% at a pool store thats 21.13 per ounce. So you really need to start price shopping as you can see.

 

[jblizzle]

Mod Edit: I merged your 2 threads for continuity ... please keep your questions together. Thanks, jblizzle

 

[cramar]

Briefly:
- shock is a process, not a product
- several companies create products called "shock".....whatever, shock is still a process first and foremost
- chlorine and bleach are the same thing
- commercial products called "shock" may contain additives that you don't want in your pool
- all you need to sanitize a pool is plain old normal unscented bleach

That's all one really needs to understand.

 

[suziequsie2945]

Thank you all for your encouragement. It is all so overwhelming to me right now because everything we have known the past few years is out the window. We really want to stick to the advice given here, so this is a major step for us in changing our thinking around.

Now, I am a little lost regarding the chlorine tablets. You guys are throwing me for a loop here. I understand you are saying it is increasing our CYA level, and we certainly don't want to do that while shocking, but what do you guys use as chlorine when not shocking? I mean, do you strictly use the liquid chlorine/bleach and no other chlorine source? This just does not seem feasible to me and would cost a ton. I would assume using only liquid chlorine versus tablets would require you to continiously add gallons daily to keep the chlorine level right, especially when the sun beats on it? So, no one here uses the tablets?

Here is where I am lost.

 

[Bluechip]

Your pool is just a bit smaller than mine. I am in TX and have full sun between 10AM-5PM. My CYA is around 40-50. I loose about 2-3ppm of chlorine a day. That means I have to add 1 121oz jug of 8.25% Clorox per day. By the 5th day my level is high enough that I can skip a day unless there is some reason not to (higher swimmer load etc..). If I used trichlor I would use about 2 tabs per day. It might be a little cheaper but it would add 2ppm of CYA per day to my pool too. I would have to replace water frequently to keep CYA in check. Overall it just works out better to use bleach.

 

[scott.MI]

Now, I am a little lost regarding the chlorine tablets. You guys are throwing me for a loop here. I understand you are saying it is increasing our CYA level, and we certainly don't want to do that while shocking, but what do you guys use as chlorine when not shocking? I mean, do you strictly use the liquid chlorine/bleach and no other chlorine source? This just does not seem feasible to me and would cost a ton. I would assume using only liquid chlorine versus tablets would require you to continiously add gallons daily to keep the chlorine level right, especially when the sun beats on it? So, no one here uses the tablets?

Here is where I am lost.

Yes, liquid chlorine/bleach is the only thing suggested to use for your chlorine levels. As for cost and chlorine levels, I'm wondering if your under the impression you need to keep chlorine at 20. You only need to keep chlorine at shock level until you complete the shock process. And by completing the shock process refers to the 3 steps 1. CC is less than 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT shows a loss of 1.0 ppm or less and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

After those 3 steps are met, you can go to normal chlorine levels. With a CYA of 50 you want to maintain 6PPM chlorine and let it get no lower than 4PPM. Now follow along. lets assume once you've completed the shock process and your maintaining normal chlorine levels (6PPM) and normal chlorine loss per day is 2PPM. (More if people are swimming or rain storm etc. For a 2PPM loss and to go from 4PPM to 6PPM in your 25000 gallon pool, you only need half gallon of 10% liquid chlorine. If you have a walmart 1 gallon of 10% liquid chlorine is only like $3.24. That $3.24 should last you 2 days. Now how much sun and if your pool is covered or not can raise or lower how much you lose.

So as an estimate lets say half gallon a day to counter the 2 PPM daily loss, that's 3 gallons a week at 9.72 plus tax per week.

Still sound expense or still lost? Have you gotten a better understanding of the pool calculator now to figure out how much chlorine to add?

 

[scott.MI]

Now, I am a little lost regarding the chlorine tablets. You guys are throwing me for a loop here. I understand you are saying it is increasing our CYA level, and we certainly don't want to do that while shocking
.

with CYA already at 50, I see no reason you would want to raise CYA even after shocking, but I guess it would depend on your location and sunlight amounts per day. Perhaps someone else will comment on this.

***On a side note, how are you guys quoting individual sentences/comments,questions? The only way I know how to, is to quote the entire post and delete everything but the part I want quoted..is there any easier/other way?

 

[JasonLion]

***On a side note, how are you guys quoting individual sentences/comments,questions? The only way I know how to, is to quote the entire post and delete everything but the part I want quoted..is there any easier/other way?

Press Quote, and then delete the portion of the original post you don't want to quote. Of not the quote commands that the Quote button inserts and manually cut and paste them around the individual parts you want to quote separately.

 

[techguy]

It's funny, last summer, I felt like I was spending a ton of money on liquid chlorine. I was always buying chlorine/bleach at the Wal-Mart/HomeDepot/Lowes/LPS. Than I stopped at looked at the bucket of tabs for about $100. It sounds easy, buy a bucket, plunk a tab (or 5) into a floater and enjoy your week. Then I started looking at the other costs or issues. With most of the solid forms of CL, it is a stabilized form with CYA. I found my CYA get way over 100 and I could not keep the pool clear, no matter how much (or how many) tabs I added.

Last summer, I was all liquid, all day. While I did always seem to have bleach in the bad of my truck, it was about $6 for a weeks worth ($10 for a bad week). It sounds expensive but it's tons easier and likely cheaper once you understand its a little bleach, a bag of Arm & Hammer, a $3 box of Borax, and a gallon or two of Muriatic for the season.

No $30 bottle of "fixit" to recover from the buckets of tabs and bags of shock... and making a bigger problem.

See this thread for more.

 

[suziequsie2945]

Wow, thanks guys for the breakdowns of the costs. We got the liquid chlorine from the pool store last night. It was $40.00 for 8 gallons of 12.5% liquid chlorine. Wal-Mart sounds a bit cheaper and I never even thought of going there.

I am learning the calculator and have the chlorine section down but haven't even gotten to the point of using the other sections in the calculator yet. Still working with this whole shock process.

We vacuumed the stuff at the bottom, added more liquid chlorine earlier today, and I tested the FC a few hours later and we were at 23. The chlorinator has been off so I am really curious to check the FC numbers again very soon to see where we are at. Maybe the stuff at the bottom (supposed algae) was what was consuming our chlorine. Only time will tell.

I wish I knew this ahead of time about the chlorine tablets. We just bought a huge bucket yesterday for $60.00 and already opened it!

BTW, Is it normal to have an algae issue straight away like this? As mentioned, we had a major issue last year, battled it out and won, and the pool was completely clear for a week or so before closing. All levels were right on. So now I am wondering why this algae is back so suddenly? Did it never really go away?

 

[Bluechip]

Just keep the tabs for vacations. If you keep your CYA levels in check it's OK to use the pucks occasionally as long as you are aware what it adds to your pool. Or you could sell it on Craigslist to some sucker who doesn't know any better.

 

[suziequsie2945]

Yes, liquid chlorine/bleach is the only thing suggested to use for your chlorine levels. As for cost and chlorine levels, I'm wondering if your under the impression you need to keep chlorine at 20. You only need to keep chlorine at shock level until you complete the shock process. And by completing the shock process refers to the 3 steps 1. CC is less than 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT shows a loss of 1.0 ppm or less and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

After those 3 steps are met, you can go to normal chlorine levels. With a CYA of 50 you want to maintain 6PPM chlorine and let it get no lower than 4PPM. Now follow along. lets assume once you've completed the shock process and your maintaining normal chlorine levels (6PPM) and normal chlorine loss per day is 2PPM. (More if people are swimming or rain storm etc. For a 2PPM loss and to go from 4PPM to 6PPM in your 25000 gallon pool, you only need half gallon of 10% liquid chlorine. If you have a walmart 1 gallon of 10% liquid chlorine is only like $3.24. That $3.24 should last you 2 days. Now how much sun and if your pool is covered or not can raise or lower how much you lose.

So as an estimate lets say half gallon a day to counter the 2 PPM daily loss, that's 3 gallons a week at 9.72 plus tax per week.

Still sound expense or still lost? Have you gotten a better understanding of the pool calculator now to figure out how much chlorine to add?

No, I know I am an amateur :-D but I do know that I do not keep the levels at 20, only for shocking at this point going off the basis that my CYA is 50. Otherwise, I would keep the chlorine at normal levels in conjunciton with whatever the CYA is.

We get a TON of afternoon sun. The past years, we would start the filter early, like 7 am and let it run all day until nighttime, but to save energy, I am now wondering, since most sun is in the afternoon, if we can start it at like 10 until 6 or so. Does this sound right? We are in NJ.

Thank you for the above, scottmi. That is all very helpful!

 

[suziequsie2945]

Re: Morning after our first attempt at the shock process

Whether you scoop it or vacuum it, get the physical debris out of your pool and then continue the shock process. Disregard any advice that says otherwise.

what I exactly said was "The only thing I have to add, can't say that I've seen it mentioned. The shock process itself will not make "the thing" on the bottom just disappear. I think you should vacuum or at the very least brush it and if it re-settles to the bottom its dirt and needs to be vacuumed. This is best done while the chlorine is at shock level."

What I was trying to say in more simple terms was I thought it would be best to do the brushing or vacuuming before she lets the chlorine fall to normal levels. If its algae, you want high chlorine to attack it when it gets stirred up, if its just dirt/sand, no big deal since she was doing the shock process anyways. So am I giving bad advice then? I only got in this thread to help clear her confusion between "bleach" and "liquid chlorine"

I assume maybe buying bleach instead of liquid chlorine is cheaper?

If you check your other topic I had posted a way to compare prices even for different size and different strengths. As long as I wrote it in a way that makes sense to you its pretty easy.

Scott, When you say if it is dirt, it will resettle. Well, what would it do if it were algae? Algae always seems to resettle at the bottom as well (doesn't it????), but in clumps and patches, from my experience anyway.

My husband vacuumed it all earlier today where nothing was left. I just took a look now and there's some back on the floor, a lot less but it "reappeared" after vacuuming. Probably just some stuff that got kicked around. We've been at shock level basically all day today so far.

It's been pouring here all day today too. We may have to empty some water out as the water levels are getting high. Empyting water will screw things up for us, won't it?

So, during the shock process, we're really not too concerned about testing other things besides FC, CC, and CYA (as an extra measure), is this correct? I have been ignoring all other tests at this point besides FC really until we maintain our shock level, which we have been doing so far today.

Everything is coming together for me, slowly but surely, with the help of all of you guys! Our next trip is to Wal-Mart to get the liquid chlorine to have on hand. We're gonna start using strictly liquid sources this year for the first time, keeping in mind we can occasionally use tabs if need be in a pinch as long as we keep our eye on CYA. All making sense now.

 

[techguy]

If you are getting clumps of brown/green algae, that at are not white in color, you need to do the shock process. You should not be getting algae if your chemicals are correct.

If it's re-appearing in clumps that day after you filter, if likely either coming from your filter or hiding in the hoses.

 

[suziequsie2945]

If you are getting clumps of brown/green algae, that at are not white in color, you need to do the shock process. You should not be getting algae if your chemicals are correct.

If it's re-appearing in clumps that day after you filter, if likely either coming from your filter or hiding in the hoses.

How would you get rid of it if it's hiding in your hoses? We did change the sand this year, but that probably doesn't matter at this point.

Honestly, we opened a little later than normal and there was a day or two in there before we opened it that it was in the 90s outside. Could have been from that. But again, the water is crystal clear and the debris really doesn't look green, more like a dark color, like black. No idea, but at this point, the FC is staying pretty stable at 20.

 

[scott.MI]

Re: Morning after our first attempt at the shock process

Scott, When you say if it is dirt, it will resettle. Well, what would it do if it were algae? Algae always seems to resettle at the bottom as well (doesn't it????), but in clumps and patches, from my experience anyway.

The way that I have read and understood stuff on this site, is brushing the algae will help the chlorine fight the algae better than if it was sitting on the bottom. Can't really comment on algae settling in clumps though.

My husband vacuumed it all earlier today where nothing was left. I just took a look now and there's some back on the floor, a lot less but it "reappeared" after vacuuming. Probably just some stuff that got kicked around. We've been at shock level basically all day today so far.

If it was alage, I would have a hard to beliving it could go through the filter and or get stirred up, and still be able to settle in clumps and patches espcially considering the amount of time you've had your pool at shock level. Wonder if its sand from the filter.

It's been pouring here all day today too. We may have to empty some water out as the water levels are getting high. Empyting water will screw things up for us, won't it?

I can't comment except to say if enough rain, It would lower your CYA, and chlorine, but your other levels have a wider range and are easy to raise.

So, during the shock process, we're really not too concerned about testing other things besides FC, CC, and CYA (as an extra measure), is this correct? I have been ignoring all other tests at this point besides FC really until we maintain our shock level, which we have been doing so far today.

Everything is coming together for me, slowly but surely, with the help of all of you guys! Our next trip is to Wal-Mart to get the liquid chlorine to have on hand. We're gonna start using strictly liquid sources this year for the first time, keeping in mind we can occasionally use tabs if need be in a pinch as long as we keep our eye on CYA. All making sense now.

I don't see a reason to concern yourself with the CYA except for when its done raining and you've lowered the water level and then after that its not something you need to worry much about unless you get a lot of rain again. It doesn't evaporate or get consumed like chlorine..It would only go down with the addition of water, and go up with chlorine tabs/granuals.

 

[suziequsie2945]

okay, last question for the night. It's nighttime here in NJ. I just tested the chlorine level again and it's holding steady at 20, which it's been consistently at today. We had to empty the pool a bit about an hour or so ago, and most likely will need to do it again before going to bed due to all of this rain we are having today.

As for the chlorine, what do we do? Do we add another gallon in before turning in, to ensure it doesn't go below shock level throughout the night? My husband is going to have to empty some of the water out again due to the rain, then I was thinking (if you suggest this) we would add some more liquid chlorine (a gallon or so, maybe one-half gallon?) after he empties it, and then one-half hour after that I would run an FC test in prep for the FC overnight test. OR do I just leave the chlorine alone for tonight?

 

[Casey]

Empty some water now. Run the pump/filter. Test your water. Note the FC. If it's under 20ppm, get it up to 20ppm. Go to bed. Check in the morning before sun hits it. Post those results tomorrow.

 

[suziequsie2945]

Empty some water now. Run the pump/filter. Test your water. Note the FC. If it's under 20ppm, get it up to 20ppm. Go to bed. Check in the morning before sun hits it. Post those results tomorrow.

Great! Thanks!