Just getting started 18 x 36 IG

[Blueskies21]

We're just getting started with planning our pool and I've been reading everything I can find on the forum but I've still got a lot to learn.

We'd like to do a 18 x 36 rectangle pool. I was really wanting gunite but around here it seems like to be under 80k it has to be vinyl or fiberglass. Right now we're leaning towards a builder that does a concrete perimeter wall instead of steel or polymer and then puts a vinyl liner in it. Thoughts on the concrete walls vs steel or polymer? Worth it?

Then I'm trying to figure out things I'll need to specify to builders to get bids, seems like when we've been talking to some of them the trend is to use 1.5" plumbing, I don't know if that's because it's good enough or they think why spend money if a guy doesn't ask for larger. Should it be 2" min? 2.5"?

For a 18 x 36 pool is one skimmer enough set downwind of the prevailing wind or should I ask for 2?

How many return jets would you say would create enough circulation?

Are deck jets just for looks or a good way to cool off a pool?

I'd really like an auto cover but we're hearing 10-20k for those and that's just not in the budget. Has anyone used the aquamatic EZ cover?

I'd like to keep this as low budget as possible but I'd also like to do it right. Is there anything that I can do now to make expanding easier? I was thinking about stubbing out a future water fall or maybe trying to get the auto cover vault poured when I'm doing the pool even if we can't afford the auto cover now. Thoughts? Sorry for the long post, I've got a million questions and I haven't been able to answer them all with the search function.

 

[duraleigh]

Re: Just getting started

Welcome to the forum. :lol: Not too many PB's do a concrete pool with vinyl liner. Have you found one? Does he have any pics? City and state?

Concrete walls with a liner is often a DIY project (mine was) but few builders. Be interesting if you found one.

 

[Blueskies21]

Re: Just getting started

The guy uses "Aquaforms" which allows him to pour a 10 inch thick perimeter wall and then if you do concrete walls you can get things like benches, shelfs, in pool stairs etc. He also does steel and polymer walls but concrete sounds pretty interesting to me. I think there are pics on their website but I can't get it to load at the moment. We're still in the picking phase but if we want concrete like that around here it seems like it'd be him or DIY. Honestly I wouldn't have the first idea how to DIY it so props to you on that.

 

[harleysilo]

My pool was built similar to how you describe. The walls and large step have rebar like a gunite pool, and were sprayed and then carved/shaved to form. Versus formed and poured. Then my floor is vermiculite.

His reasoning was it cost him the same as a steel walled pool, and this way he could do our steps and swim-outs. I was fine with it as i won't have walls rusting in 30 years.

Here is the build thread. decided-to-build-first-pool-this-spring-t41345.html?hilit=new%20pool%20build

 

[Blueskies21]

Thanks Harleysilo!! I will go check out your build! I don't have any idea how often the steel walls rust but seems like concrete is less susceptible. (I guess the rebar could rust??)

 

[harleysilo]

Oh and my auto cover was ~ $12,000. It would have been worth $20,000. IF you can swing it, swing it.

My autocover has tracks that are underneath the coping, so you need to think about that as well, they would need to be installed.

My autocover pit cover is not meant to be walked on FYI, it will hold my weight but could bend. You can buy more supports to make it hold more weight but i haven't seen the need yet.

The autocover pit has to drain somewhere, could be an issue if your spot is perfectly flat.

Ask away!

 

[Blueskies21]

Wow HarleySilo, that's some RED dirt. So it's been awhile since you built your pool, anything you'd do differently?

It looks GREAT to me.

Sounds like you enjoy the auto cover, I'm looking at the aquamatic EZ cover vs the coverstar because I can save about half the cost of the cover by going manual and if I want to add an electric motor later supposedly you can (That will bear some investigation on ease on my part) I thought maybe the guy who quoted 20k just really didn't want to do a cover because of the additional trouble of making sure the walls were parallel but it sounds like maybe the coverstar people actually install the cover??

How is it working with the skimmers and return jets on the same side? As promised? Seems like that WOULD be a plus for tearing up concrete later if necessary.

Thanks for your help!

 

[harleysilo]

I'll write you a book tomorrow about it all.

 

[Blueskies21]

HarleySilo, I'm looking forward to it! Anyone else have thoughts on plumbing? 2 inch? 2 speed pump? Deck Jets? Ideas on things I could do now and expand later when money becomes available?

 

[harleysilo]

Wow HarleySilo, that's some RED dirt. So it's been awhile since you built your pool, anything you'd do differently?

It looks GREAT to me.

Sounds like you enjoy the auto cover, I'm looking at the aquamatic EZ cover vs the coverstar because I can save about half the cost of the cover by going manual and if I want to add an electric motor later supposedly you can (That will bear some investigation on ease on my part) I thought maybe the guy who quoted 20k just really didn't want to do a cover because of the additional trouble of making sure the walls were parallel but it sounds like maybe the coverstar people actually install the cover??

How is it working with the skimmers and return jets on the same side? As promised? Seems like that WOULD be a plus for tearing up concrete later if necessary.

Thanks for your help!

Things I would do different….

Pool Features
Have entire liner made out of the Tread-Tex non-slop version of liner material.
Have two steps in each side of the “deep end”, vs. just one step in each side.
Made the 1st step 5’ wide, but a water depth of 7” vs. current 5-6”.
Installed maybe 6 umbrella sleeves randomly around pool.

Workmanship/Supervision
Been there to supervise vermiculite application and liner install. There are tiny tiny rocks of vermiculite under my liner all over the place, they should have swept it with a shop-vac or something first. They also left a track of footprints in the deep end caused by walking on not completely set up vermiculite.
Been there to supervise concrete pour, they left the metal forms that made my coping on too long, and the inside edge of coping is rough.

Regarding skimmer/returns
My cover keeps probably 90% of the stuff that would get in my pool, out of my pool. It all gathers up in the cover pit however, which needs to be cleaned out a couple times a year. Why am I telling you that? Well my skimmer rarely needs emptying, and my Polaris 280 does the sweeping. I don’t do any scrubbing skimming or manual vacuuming. That said if I didn’t have a cover on all the time, I don’t think my skimmer/return setup would work very good. I think I needed 2 skimmers and 4/5 returns.

Equipment
Should have got a 2 speed pump.
Should have spent extra and got a heat pump that can cool the pool too (didn’t know they existed).

Overall Project Design/landscaping/flow
I wouldn’t change much if anything. We love the new smaller deck, the sunken patio, and then the area around the pool is big enough to be very usable.

 

[Blueskies21]

1) Does treadtex cost extra? Is the reason you want that related to your volleyball playing or something else? (Not sure if we'll play volleyball but I was thinking about trying to put in holders just in case)

2) When you say install umbrella sleeves randomly around the pool, do you mean literally around the pool perimeter or throughout the patio?

3) Seems like you're saying I really have to keep my eye on them during the process so I'll keep that in mind.

4) Since you have to clean out your cover box fairly frequently, is there anything I could do that might make that easier? I wanted to try to do coping over it but maybe you're saying the aluminum lid is easier to open for cleaning?

5)So you would say without the cover you should have 2 skimmers, do you think the on the same wall thing works or no? Sounds like no?

6) I think I AM going to try to get a 2 speed pump, electricity is 11 cents per Kwh here and even though I think it's cool I don't think I can justify the VS/VF. As for the heat pump, I think I'm going to try to find the inlet/outlet location for my preferred heater and then space pipes that way on the pad and plumb in a U of PVC so I can drop the heater in later. (Trying to save money or defer costs as much as possible.)

Thank you for all your advice. It seems to me the only way to do this right is to get the advice of those of you who have gone before, so thanks for sharing your wisdom!

 

[harleysilo]

1) Does treadtex cost extra? Is the reason you want that related to your volleyball playing or something else? (Not sure if we'll play volleyball but I was thinking about trying to put in holders just in case)

I think tread tex costs extra, mine was the first liner my pool builder did that used it, they had seen it at a trade show a couple years prior and mentioned it to me because of our concern that our dogs would damage the liner playing on the steps. They might have eaten the cost of it just to get some experience with it. The material is supposed to be a little thicker and tougher, and is definitely much more non-slip than the rest of our liner. I would have liked it on the whole bottom because when playing volleyball i find my feet slipping out all the time.

2) When you say install umbrella sleeves randomly around the pool, do you mean literally around the pool perimeter or throughout the patio?
Both, reason being is we sit different places depending on the number of quests, it would be much easier to have a stack of $35 umbrellas to carry out and set up then having a bunch of umbrella bases sitting around all the time. 3 of my current umbrellas are in 100lb holders with tables. so if you are not sitting at a table, no shade. There needs to be a way to lock in the umbrellas into the sleeve however. I haven't seen a sleeve that allow the umbrella to really be secure. Somebody needs to make one. a good bit of wind and up and out they could come. Something that attaches to the bottom of the umbrella, and then maybe screws into the sleeve would be a good start.

3) Seems like you're saying I really have to keep my eye on them during the process so I'll keep that in mind.

Of course you have to know what needs to be/is supposed to be done, for it to have any impact. I might have been able to fix the liner install issues had i been there, don't think i would have changed any result on the concrete coping. Keep reading build threads here and you'll pick up tips to watch out for. I would document build with photos at every step of the way, and post them each day here so you can keep a lot of eyes on the project looking out for anything not right

4) Since you have to clean out your cover box fairly frequently, is there anything I could do that might make that easier? I wanted to try to do coping over it but maybe you're saying the aluminum lid is easier to open for cleaning?

Aluminum lid is awkward to open, long, but not heavy. I've cleaned it out twice so far in one year, i should probably do it quarterly. Make sure they install a screen/grate over the drain in the pit, to keep Crud from clogging up the pipe, happened to me, now it's going to be more difficult to install screen/cover. The way to limit this would be to blow the stuff off the cover with a leaf blower before you open it, especially in the fall, some will still blow in cover pit. If you just open it with cover covered with leafs they all fall off cover into pit as it rolls up. I can and do walk on my cover, so you could presumably walk on yours with leaf blower.

5)So you would say without the cover you should have 2 skimmers, do you think the on the same wall thing works or no? Sounds like no?

If i had 2 more returns on other side of the pool i might be able to get circular flow at the top, which might make my skimmer work better. I've not thrown the ping pong balls in the pool to check circular flow. The steps, and cover pit limit skimmer location on my pool, so i wasn't able to have it on the downwind side which i read to be recommended.

6) I think I AM going to try to get a 2 speed pump, electricity is 11 cents per Kwh here and even though I think it's cool I don't think I can justify the VS/VF. As for the heat pump, I think I'm going to try to find the inlet/outlet location for my preferred heater and then space pipes that way on the pad and plumb in a U of PVC so I can drop the heater in later. (Trying to save money or defer costs as much as possible.)

Might consider the electrical requirements of said heater, and have that extra capacity run to pool equipment location during build, so you don't have to do it later.

Thank you for all your advice. It seems to me the only way to do this right is to get the advice of those of you who have gone before, so thanks for sharing your wisdom!