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Thread: how much borax

  1. #1
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    how much borax

    last evening i found a thread from chemgeek i believe and it told how to figure out how much borax to use per 1000 gals for the life of me i cant seem to find it again any suggestions?
    a/g 24'round 4' app 13500 gal sand filter 16''hayward (100lbs sand)1hp single speed pump on timer 12 on 12 off day &night and i use the bbb maintaince

  2. #2
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    One box of 20 Mule Team Borax is 76 ounces weight (4.75 pounds) and raises the Borates level by 8.45 ppm in 10,000 gallons. This amount of Borax takes 47.5 fluid ounces of Muriatic Acid to maintain the pH (remember that Borax raises the pH).

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    thanks alot for the quick response Richard now upon adding the borax how long should i wait to add the muriatic acid and at what time frame all at once or several hours in between ? also is it alright to swim anytime soon after the addition of the acid? what are the maintence doses on a 13,500 gal a/g?.have you ever heard of anyone using Vinegar with the bbb?
    a/g 24'round 4' app 13500 gal sand filter 16''hayward (100lbs sand)1hp single speed pump on timer 12 on 12 off day &night and i use the bbb maintaince

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    Please help me out here. If you add Borav to raise the PH why do you need to add Acid?

    Dont these things work against eack other?
    10,000 Gal. - Plaster – I.G. - Sand Filter – NOT USING MY Auto Puck Chlorinator.

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    iam trying to balance out my borates as i havent added any borax to my water as of yet to help prevent the loss of my liq cholrine,my cya is at 30 but i lose my cholrine alittle to fast seems to me.being concerned over the ph iam gonna use the muriatic acid to maintain it at proper level,its gonna be over a week before i can try any of this so i will let everybody know how it all works out ,iam new at all this and have much to learn,but i think iam in just the right site to do just that
    a/g 24'round 4' app 13500 gal sand filter 16''hayward (100lbs sand)1hp single speed pump on timer 12 on 12 off day &night and i use the bbb maintaince

  6. #6
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    Yes, if adding Borax to raise pH then you wouldn't add acid, but if adding them to increase Borates levels then you would add acid as well.

    Different people do it differently, but you can just add one box of Borax, then add the acid associated with it right after, then alternate. Just don't mix them together outside the pool "raw". Adding them to the pool one after the other is no problem since they both mix into the pool water very, very quickly -- especially if you add them over a return with the pump running.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    okay,i think ive finally got it,iam trying to build up my borates as of this time iam at "0"so ill shoot for 30-50 and add acid as your recommend ,so ill get me some test strips and go for it thanks, ill let you know how it all works out in alittle over a week when i get back home thanks again..
    a/g 24'round 4' app 13500 gal sand filter 16''hayward (100lbs sand)1hp single speed pump on timer 12 on 12 off day &night and i use the bbb maintaince

  8. #8
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    3/4 lb (12 oz) borax will raise the borate level of 1000 gallons 10 ppm and will need 3/4 cup (6 oz) of acid to compensate for the pH rise. Not exact but close enough. Add half the requird borax then half the acid right after. Then add the rest of the borax and the rest of the acid. Wait about 24 hours, check pH and adjust to 7.6 with either acid or borax.

  9. #9
    Member TexasTwister's Avatar
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    Please check my math!

    Hi,

    Can someone check my math? This is a pool with no borates.

    A 15,300 gallon pool will need 551 ounces (or 34.4375 pounds or 7.25 boxes) of 20 Mule Team Borax to get to 40 ppm. I will also need to add 344 ounces (or 2.69 gallons) of muriatic acid to compensate for the increase in pH.

    Is this right?

    Also, will this amount of muriatic acid lower my TA enough to get back to 70 ppm or do I need to lower the TA first, and then let the muriatic acid handle the pH?

    Thanks.
    15,323 gallon inground pool, Wetedge Primera Stone plaster, Pentair IntelliChlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntelliFlo 4x160 pump, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420 cartridge filter, Pentair EasyTouch control panel, Pentair Kreepy Krauly. No spa, no heater.

  10. #10
    Administrator JasonLion's Avatar
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    For 15,300 gallons, to raise borates from 0 to 40 I get 721 oz or 9.5 boxes of Borax and 362 oz or 2 gallons 3 quarts and 1 cup of 31.25% muriatic acid. You can try out my Pool Calculator, see the link in my signature, for making this kind of calculation.

    Using borax and acid together will have very little if any effect on the TA level. The borax will raise the TA and the acid will lower it back down by the same amount.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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  11. #11
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    To give you an idea of why Jason says Borates effectively don't affect the measured TA level, even 50 ppm Borates only raises the TA by about 5 ppm, all else equal. Borates are still a pH buffer, but have far more capacity (at pH 7.5) to buffer against rising pH than lowering pH and the TA test only measures the buffer capacity against lowering pH.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  12. #12
    Member matj6876's Avatar
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    Hi waterhog & TexasTwister

    I'm new to all this and just used Borax to add borates to my 15000 gal pool about 10 days ago. After seeking the wisdom of the TFP sages here
    I used Jason's Pool Calculator to calculate the amounts of Borax & acid that I needed.
    I added all of my Borax in one go (against advice) and then added all of the acid immediately after, with the pump running. I had no problems and ended up with what looks like, according to the test strips, just under 50ppm borates and no change in pH.

    Good luck - you can do this stuff!
    My Pool: 27K gal IG plaster, Pentair FNS Plus DE Filter, Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair Cleaner

  13. #13
    Am I right that the TF-100 test kit does NOT have a Borate test?

    If not, can anyone recommend a good, accurate test kit for measuring Borate levels?

  14. #14
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    Correctamundo!. The TF-100 does not have the test.

    Waterbear is the practical guru on borates and will be along soon to recommend a test resource.
    Dave S.
    Site Owner 42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter, No SWG
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  15. #15
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    The easiest test for home use is the LaMotte borate test strips... the other borate test strips out there are oK but the LaMotte are MUCH easier to read!!!!!!!

  16. #16
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    How about this:

    http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... 3/chem.htm

    as an alternative to the strips and to ProTeam's titration kit?

    It describes Seachem's borate test, used in aquariums.
    Galveston, Texas

  17. #17
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    Sorry, that should be 'borate alkalinity' test.



    There should be a way to go from "borate alkalinity" to borates as ppm, no?
    Galveston, Texas

  18. #18
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    This is, in fact, pretty much the same test as the Proteam titration test. Meq/l can be converted into ppm with that much trouble if you understand some basic chemistry. Once again I say that for home use the LaMotte Borate test strips are the easiest way to go for reults that are certainly accurate enough for borates!
    Dave,
    Ever consider these as an option or add on to the TF100 kit?

  19. #19
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    Re: how much borax

    Quote Originally Posted by ;31377
    This is, in fact, pretty much the same test as the Proteam titration test. Meq/l can be converted into ppm with that much trouble if you understand some basic chemistry. Once again I say that for home use the LaMotte Borate test strips are the easiest way to go for reults that are certainly accurate enough for borates!
    Dave,
    Ever consider these as an option or add on to the TF100 kit?
    The main reason that they aren't included is because they are an optional thing... the test kits are everything you NEED to maintain a pool...
    12k - free form - plaster- Nautilus fns48 DE filter- centurion 1hp (so quiet)- In floor cleaning system with Jandy Caretaker - TF-50 and 5 in 1 test kit, Phoenix, Az

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