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Thread: Liner Stains ??

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    Liner Stains ??

    Not sure what these light tan-ish brown stains are on the floor of the pool? Its an older pool we took over last year when we purchased the house and noticed a few patchy spots like these last year as well,I was hopeful last year that it was due to the previous owners lack of proper chemistry and never really bothered with the few areas because the liner is overdue to be replaced and new we would be doing it soon (next spring) but the past few days or week ago we have started to see the same stains and seem to be additional ones appearing ?

    Hopefully the pics below will be able to shed some familiar light on the issue and someone can point me in the right direction to clear it up a bit for the season or at least let me know its an issue that may have happened in the past and not to worry about it possibly effecting anything (swimmers) or a new liner when installed ? My recent test results are below and seem to be fine ? Should I test for something else?

    I have well water hooked to a softener for makeup fill water .Water is super sparkly clear and everything but the old liner look ok....

    FC-4.5
    CC-0
    CYA-40/50
    TA- 75
    CH- 180









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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Do they brush off? If you briefly put a trichlor tablet on them, do they lighten? Does a vitamin C tablet on the stain do anything?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Do they brush off? If you briefly put a trichlor tablet on them, do they lighten? Does a vitamin C tablet on the stain do anything?
    Don't brush off... Have no trichlor tabs around...but will try the Vitamin C today when I get home....whats the difference between setting a trichlor tab or Vitamin C tab?? What should it do with the vitamin C tab??

    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Trichlor lightens, stain is organic. Vit C lightens, stain is metals.

    Do you know what the previous owner used to chlorinate?

    Have you had the water tested for metals?

    What should it do with the vitamin C tab??
    Same as trichlor, hold on stain for a minute or so.
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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    One of the most important factors with stain issues is pH, which you didn't post. What is it?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    Trichlor lightens, stain is organic. Vit C lightens, stain is metals.

    Do you know what the previous owner used to chlorinate?

    Have you had the water tested for metals?

    What should it do with the vitamin C tab??
    Same as trichlor, hold on stain for a minute or so.
    Not sure exactly what they used, but believe it was some type of tablet because the had a inline chlorinator piped into the original pad...not there anymore since I found TFP and switched to liquid...

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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    One of the most important factors with stain issues is pH, which you didn't post. What is it?
    Opps, ph has always been maintained at 7.5-7.6 it use to creep up a lot faster but since I've dropped my TA a bit more it seems to have a lot slower of a creep toward the higher side of the scale

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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    7.5 - 7.6 Gotcha'. That's OK, but I would not let it get higher and 7.2 - 7.4 might be a bit better but probably not much.

    So, next is to classify the stain as either organic or metal...it's one or the other.

    Do the tri-chlor and vitamin C tests as suggested above and tell us your results.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    7.5 - 7.6 Gotcha'. That's OK, but I would not let it get higher and 7.2 - 7.4 might be a bit better but probably not much.

    So, next is to classify the stain as either organic or metal...it's one or the other.

    Do the tri-chlor and vitamin C tests as suggested above and tell us your results.
    Humm, a little confused now on the PH 7.2-7.4?? I've been following the pool school and pool calc recommendations at 7.5-7.8 every since managing my own pool with BBB?? Can you explain what you mean a bit more with the 7.2-7.4 might be a bit better??

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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Well looks like the Vitamin C lightened it up a bit?? Hard to tell because it started raining after 5-10 minutes of it sitting on the bottom and by the time I got back to it the rain was starting to get worse...have to try again tomorrow, it kind of looked like the surrounding area where I placed it got a little darker as well?? But could have been from stirring it up a bit moving it around??

    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Quote Originally Posted by roadking00
    Humm, a little confused now on the PH 7.2-7.4??
    Keeping ph a little lower can reduce the likelihood of metal staining and sometimes reverse it.

    Quote Originally Posted by roadking00
    it kind of looked like the surrounding area where I placed it got a little darker as well??
    This could be a sign of copper...which can be hard to remove. Try it again tomorrow, but be aware if it is copper, sometimes vitamin C can actually make it darker.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    10-4, thanks linen,

    I have a neighbor that works at a Chem lab and plan on giving her a sample of my pool water (and well water) to get analyzed... anything besides copper residual I should have both samples tested for ? I wanna get a good idea what I'm looking at as options ahead of time for when I replace my liner next spring so I know exactly my best way to prevent any staining on the new liner....

    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    I would have Iron test as well.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Sweet...just talked to my neighbor, works for a major power utility company in the water chemistry lab (Tests all Nuke generation plants water quality) and she'll do a full set of metal testing for my pool water and well water to see where I'm at

    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Ok , so I got my complete set of labs back from my neighbor and the results for my pool water were copper 0.10 ppm , iron less than 0.01 ppm and my well (fill water) was copper 0.009 ppm , iron less than 0.01 ppm ?? She basically said it nothing to worry about ?? I have basically a FULL panel of element test results for my pool AND well water, is there any other element levels I need to share to see if there could possibly be any other issues ?

    It seems like my slightly higher copper level in my pool must have came from "stuff" the previous owner may have added to the pool when he was maintaining it ?? Is it possible the stains that occurred in the past (with previous owners) have just never been addressed/removed and with a higher pH they tend to show a little more ?

    With these levels I'm assuming I shouldnt have to worry about and staining on my new liner next season and shouldn't have to use any sequesterant to keep theses low levels in check ??
    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Non of those results are too bad. I agree the stains could be from the previous owners and possibly a water change has happened since they formed.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Non of those results are too bad. I agree the stains could be from the previous owners and possibly a water change has happened since they formed.
    Yep, the water change happened last year when we bought the house , found TFP, ripped out the tablet auto feeder, started using liquid chlorine lowered CYA and started the BBB method , so hopefully I should be alright ....

    Could there have been something other then Algeside with copper in it that could have been potentially used in the past for years by multiple previous owners that would have contributed to the staining that after the drain and refilling to get my CYA down last season whatever remaining copper that may have been there was diluted and drastically lower the levels ??
    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
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    Re: Liner Stains ??

    Some "chlorine in a bag" products contain copper. Also some erosion feeders (pucks) can have copper.

    Low ph and a copper heat exchanger or copper piping can also cause higher copper.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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