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Thread: Well water

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    Well water

    I know this topic has been discussed before... I have a well and a 33k gal pool to fill next week. My well and pump deliver 30 gpm. My well driller said that as long as I can run a big enough (or multiple) lines and keep the pump running all the without having to start and stop that I will have no problem at all with the pump or well. The pump cools itself while running and is much better off running continuously.

    I really did not want to resort to trucking in water... at a cost of over $2000.

    My only other issue is iron in my water. It is a pretty low level... 0.56 (drinking water federal limit is 0.30). But it stains my walkways from sprinklers over long periods of time. The pH is also low... 4.3. My treated water has no iron and pH of about 7.0. So, my decision is to run it through my water filters or not. I would have to let the softener regenerate every 5k gallons or so... which takes an hour. I do not want to have any iron issue with my new plaster. Or an issue with the pH being at 4.3 for a few days before they add the chemicals.

    Anyone who has filled with well water and has low pH or high iron, I'd appreciate hearing if you ran the raw water into the pool or filtered?
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

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    Re: Well water

    Maintaining a pool with iron content is a HUGE hassle. .3 ppm seems to be the threshold and you are almost double that. I don't believe you can find a filter that will remove iron from the water at any significant rate to help you.

    That said, you mention a water softener, which DOES remove iron, but unless it's a VERY big one intended for commercial use, a whole house softener just doesn't have the capacity to soften 33k of water.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Well water

    We also have a well with a softener. How much water can you run through a softener before you need to regenerate?
    13,500gal AGP Matrix 24'
    Pentair Sanddollar SD-80 75GPM filter, Pentair Dynamo 1HP 2 speed pump
    Polaris 65 pool cleaner
    (20'x30" solar heater to be installed)

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    Re: Well water

    How much water can you run through a softener before you need to regenerate?
    It depends on the capacity of your softener. It is almost never enough to fill a pool in a reasonable time
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Well water

    I have a 2 cu ft softener... I can run about 5000 gal through before regenerating... and it flows about 20 gpm with full filtration effectiveness. But, I have also read differing opinions about using soft water with no TDS. Some say that it will have an immediate effect on new plaster and others say it would have to be in contact for months to have any effect.
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

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    Re: Well water

    TDS is irrelevant to pool water. If it is the lack of calcium that is of concern, your softened water will come in to the pool with no calcium but your new plaster will begin throwing off calcium immediately.

    If you would like for your new, softened water to already contain calcium, it is easily added but don't add much more than about 150 ppm (guessing) as the new plaster may soon have your CH too high. (250 - 400 is a normal range)

    I would definitely fill that pool with softened water if you can produce that quantity. Iron from well water is a huge hassle and it literally never goes away....you will be purchasing sequestrant for the rest of the pool's life and have to monitor your pool water much more carefully to prevent iron staining,
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Well water

    Thanks, Dave. By TDS I was mainly referring to the calcium component.

    So, there is no way to get iron out of water? I thought I read posts about additives that cause iron to oxidize and get filtered out. Chlorine reacting with the iron... Magic Jack? I have read so many varied posts my head is spinning.
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

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    Re: Well water

    I understand.

    It is the consensus of some smart folks on this forum (not me, I'm the parrot) that iron simply doesn't come out of your water in any way to do an entire pool effectively.

    Search "iron stains" on this forum and you will likely get a thousand threads that will give you an idea how troublesome it is.

    It sounds like you have a way out for the cost of some water softener salt (and some work) but you will never look back if you can remove that iron before it goes in your pool.

    I know almost nothing about home water softeners.....did you pick yours because of it's VERY high capacity? Most softeners won't do nearly what yours will.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Well water

    Thanks, Dave.

    Yes. I wanted high flow though filter. 1" in and out. Less maintenance.

    I am concerned about mix water also... wondering if I should be getting fresh city water for the plaster mixing also... my PB is just planning to use my well water.
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

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    Re: Well water

    OnBalance is the correct member to answer that question. He/she usually checks in at least once a day but I am sure wouldn't mind a PM.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Well water

    Thanks!

    My local pool store said not to trust delivered water... dirty trucks... source water issues... etc. I guess municipal sources only have to comply with federal standards... so they are probably not completely metal free either.
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

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    Re: Well water

    I know from recent professional water tests (state lab) that my raw has 0.56 ppm iron and the treated shows "<0.10" which I think is below the detection limit. I also know that I get foul smelling water every 6 months or so, and that is from the treated water in the hot water heater. So, I am not sure if iron bacteria smell means there are still very low levels of iron in the water or if they are two different things... ie. if the iron can be filtered but the icon bacteria still comes through. We do not get any staining on fixtures in the house, unless I let the softener run out of salt or it does not backwash (if I unplug it and forget to plug it back in...

    So, on one hand, my well water is a known quantity... and delivered water is an unknown... that could have more metals than my well water, but still be under federal drinking water standards.

    I have a feeling I am over thinking this and my well water will be fine... but for new plaster, this is something I do not want screwed up.
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

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    Re: Well water

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    How much water can you run through a softener before you need to regenerate?
    It depends on the capacity of your softener. It is almost never enough to fill a pool in a reasonable time
    It also depends on the hardness of the water. I don't, not have I ever had to remove iron, but know that is also a factor. But a typical system is in the range of 48K grains (1 grain = 1 ppm). The largest single tank is about 64K. When you get into the 96K, you need double resin tanks. If you know your total hardness and add in the iron, you can divide it into your resin capacity to get number of gallons but every ppm of iron counts as 4 grains of hardness. For example, if you total hardness is 10 grains and iron is 2 grains, you would use 18 grains of capacity per gallon filtered. With a 48K system, you could treat 2,666 gallons. No need to calculate headroom because you'll have to regenerate it several times as soon as it runs out of capacity. For calculators, try CAI Technologies website. They have the most useful info for water treatment systems that I have found.

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    Re: Well water

    We also need to know the following:
    What is the calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, manganese, sulfate, and carbon dioxide, content of your well water?
    What type of plaster; typical white, colored, quartz, or pebble?
    What area of the country do you reside?
    Also read the first blog on this "Under Construction" section regarding the Bicarb Start-up Guide program, and see if you are willing to try doing it.

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    Re: Well water

    Thanks for the info. That is very helpful.

    I actually bought my system from CAI. I have a 48K softener and a 2 cu ft pH filter.

    TDS: 36.4 (raw)
    Hardness: 0 (raw)
    Iron: 0.56 ppm (raw), Treated is <0.10
    Manganese: <0.025 (raw)
    pH: 4.3 (raw), treated is 7.0
    Calcium: Tested with Taylor test kit: raw=10? (violet after R10 and R11, 1 drop R12 all blue), treated=0ppm (blue after R10/R11)
    Alkalinity: Tested with Taylor test kit: raw=0 (after R7 and R8 still red), treated=60ppm
    Magnesium: don't know
    Sulfate content: don't know

    French Gray Diamond Brite
    NJ
    As far as the bicarb start-up... I am willing to question my PB to make sure he is doing things properly, but I do not want to do anything on my own, at the risk of having a warranty issue with the PB. It is my choice about paying for trucked in water or using my well. I'd like to use the well if I have enough facts to be confident in the water quality... otherwise I pay almost $2000 for water and have a big unknown about what i am getting.

    AZHeat, with your equation I have 0 + .56*4 = about 2 grains. So, taking only raw water into account, I could treat 24,000 gallons before backwash was required. BUT, my softener was not installed because of hard water... it was for the iron and to remove the hardness that the pH filter introduces. I am not sure how much hardness the pH filter introduces.
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Well water

    I assume that you are relying upon the state lab for the pH reading?
    I am having a hard time believing that with the pH at 4.3, that the calcium hardness is 10 ppm or less.

    In my opinion, since it will be a gray colored pool, that amount of iron may not be a major issue.
    But it would be best to try and remove or reduce the iron content. Iron can be precipitated where it will not stain the plaster.
    The pH filter should be helping to precipitate iron, and if you add a good dose of chlorine as it fills (preferrably before it enters the pool), that will also help precipitate the iron and prevent staining. The filter will eventually filter the precipitated iron out.
    You might try to treat the water first with chlorine bleach, and then having the water go through a filter and then into the pool.
    Any kind of filter the water passes through can trap precipitated iron.

    New pool plaster is more prone to damage by soft and aggressive fill water than it is after it has cured for 30 days. I hope the PB will acknowledge that and agree to compound (balance) the water as it fills.
    Please do not fill with water that has a pH of 4.3, and calcium hardness of only 10 ppm. Once the pool is full, the horse is already out of the barn.
    You should still try and find out whether the well water contains a significant amount of sulfates or not.

    I understand your concerns regarding the PB warranty. But a good PB should want balanced water to be used to fill his new plaster pool finish, and not wait until after it is already full.

    You might want to read this: ten-guidelines-for-quality-pool-plaster-t42957.html

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    Re: Well water

    I'm going to try filling my pool this weekend from my shallow bored well....we have iron in our water, but i don't know the numbers. I read somewhere here that simply using a tube sock over the water hose with some zip ties will filer a majority of the iron. Should I or should I not be filling my pool with well water containing iron? Will my sand filter get out what the sock method does not?
    Intex 16'x48" Ultra Frame
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    Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Well water

    I haven't seen anyone suggest the "kiddy pool" method of metals removal. Can't remember where I read about it, but there is a way of you pretreat you pool water by using a small plastic kids splash pool (Wal-mart special).

    Since you are going to use your softener to remove the iron etc, you should be able to fill a cheap splash pool with the treated water, then add your cal-hypo and bleach to it there, then use a sump pump to transfer to your pool. Sure, it will be a slow process, but it will save your new plaster.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

  19. Back To Top    #19
    nate81's Avatar
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    Re: Well water

    Plaster?sorry for hijacking this thread
    Intex 16'x48" Ultra Frame
    Intex 2,650-Gallon Sand Filter Pump
    Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater Filtration System
    Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Well water

    Anyone ever try one of these filters to reduce iron in well water to acceptable levels?
    http://amzn.com/B0025PPF76

    Spec sheet:
    http://www.pentekfiltration.com/Pent...e%20310086.pdf
    26,000 gal 18x36' IG Vinyl Pool - Hayward S244T Sand filter - Hayward Tri-star 2-speed 1.5HP pump - Goldline Aqua Plus SWCG and Controller with Tcell-15 - Aquacomfort 125K BTU Heatpump - Hayward Color Comfort 4.0 LED - Zodiac MX8 suction cleaner - TF100 test kit
    My Build thread

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