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Thread: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

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    new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    alk 210
    ph 8.2
    free cl 4
    hrd 0
    cya 115

    Ok, where do I start?
    I am so confused!!!!!!!
    Took me a month to get the water clear, numbers have been all over the place, backflushing every couple of hours, but it's finally clear.
    Thanks for any help.
    Got bleach, got borax, got baking soda......now just need direction.......
    27ft AG 17204 Gal, Hayward 300lb Sand filter
    Hayward 1hp single speed pump, Hayward Variflow Valve,
    Pentair 78DPD testing kit. Pool came with the house.
    Located Near Wilson NC.

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    Join Date
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    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    First thing I would do is lower the Ph to around 7.4 or so. For that you will need some muriatic acid.
    Second would be to get a better test kit. http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html
    Third would to read Pool School a few times. category.php?c=getting_started
    23x40 freeform w/spa, 28,000 gal. PCC-2000 in-floor cleaning. Pebble Sheen w/flagstone coping. 14' weeping wall, (2) 18" sheer descents. Sta Rite- cart 400 sqft. filter, Intellipro VS pump, 1hp (cleaning)2hp (water feature)Max E Pro's. Easy Touch 8 function w/IPod. Rainbow chlorinator, Paramount Clear O3 (I know, I know), Max-E-Therm 400K heater.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    In addition to what Bluechip mentioned, your CYA level is quite high. I recommend replacing water until you get CYA down into the 50 to 60 range.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    Working on the test kit....and as soon as I can get my plumbing sorted(question in another part of the board, I will be able to drop my water level, but I was hoping not to, gets really expensive.) Muriatic acid? Ok, will hit hardware store on the way home, rough calculations show to be needing around 3 qts? My math may be off, doesn't seem like a lot for a 12000 gallon pool....
    27ft AG 17204 Gal, Hayward 300lb Sand filter
    Hayward 1hp single speed pump, Hayward Variflow Valve,
    Pentair 78DPD testing kit. Pool came with the house.
    Located Near Wilson NC.

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    Dosed last night. numbers read as of this morning
    ALK 240
    ph 8
    free CL 3
    hrd 0
    CYA 80

    using a new type of test kit. But will be ordering one from the board as soon as my cash gets flowing again
    I know I have to get my ALK readings down, what is a good chemical? I'm so confused. (second edit) Aerating? If i'm understanding the number right, AK is total right?
    And how to get the Hrd up? (edit) calcium chloride...ice melter, I sell that at work......
    27ft AG 17204 Gal, Hayward 300lb Sand filter
    Hayward 1hp single speed pump, Hayward Variflow Valve,
    Pentair 78DPD testing kit. Pool came with the house.
    Located Near Wilson NC.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    Took another sampling this morning:
    br: 3.5
    CL: 1.5
    tc: 1.5
    ph: 7
    total AK: 200(20 dropsx10?)

    Sample going to pool store today as a cross reference.

    How am I looking?.....I think I'm headed in the right direction. Pool is clear, no chlorine smell, pump is happily running with no pressure climb.

    I've been reading the pool school, and while I don't yet fully understand it, I'm beginning to get a grasp. I'm the kid who blew up the chem lab at school because chemistry isn't my forte......
    27ft AG 17204 Gal, Hayward 300lb Sand filter
    Hayward 1hp single speed pump, Hayward Variflow Valve,
    Pentair 78DPD testing kit. Pool came with the house.
    Located Near Wilson NC.

  7. Back To Top    #7
    BoDarville's Avatar
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    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzie
    Took another sampling this morning:
    br: 3.5
    CL: 1.5
    tc: 1.5
    ph: 7
    total AK: 200(20 dropsx10?)
    How am I looking?
    If your CYA is still at 80 ppm, you need to get FC up to between 6 - 11 ppm. BTW, your test results have a few inconsistencies. Latest ones show a br reading while earlier ones do not. Are you adding bromine? I would stick with chlorine, ideally from liquid bleach.

    Would not lower pH from where it is now @ 7. Would actually let it drift up slightly to at least 7.2.

    Don't sweat the TA. TA is merely a measure of the water's ability to buffer pH changes. Keep monitoring pH. If it rises quickly, use muriatic acid (MA) to lower it to around 7.2. MA will also lower TA. Once pH stabilizes, you will have found the TA happy medium for your pool.
    Gold Supporter, TFP Lifetime Supporter, 26,680 gal Plaster IGP 3.5 - 10' depth / Attached Waterfall Spa, Manually Chlorinated, Triton Sand Filter, 1.5 HP * 1.1 SF = 1.65 SFHP 1-speed Pentair WhisperFlo WF-26 Pump, 400K BTU NG Teledyne Laars Series One Heater, Polaris 360, Test Kit Comparison, Chlorine/CYA Chart, SLAMing Your Pool, OCLT
    A good test kit is an investment, not an expense.

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    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    I switched back to my listed kit, I was using another system for a little while(summat new-figured I'd give it a shot) I will do it again tonight with both kits. Trying to stick to the 3 b's right now, added some calcium chloride last night for hardness(?) I understand hardness is not so much of an issue because it's a Vinyl liner, but I decided to get it better.
    So, using the 3 b's, what do I need?
    More bleach(using clorox)
    Baking soda?
    Borax?

    The light bulb is starting to come on, trying to track the number and what I'm adding so I can get a better understanding.

    Hitting the pool store later for a fitting so I can build my aerator/fountain, and a new cap for my trash filter at the pump(read my other post in other forum).....hilarious now....not so much then.

    Gotta say, thanks to all those who bring the immense amounts of knowledge to this board, I'm reading more every day, and learning more, albeit slowly. I hope one day to be able to contribute to the knowledge base myself.
    27ft AG 17204 Gal, Hayward 300lb Sand filter
    Hayward 1hp single speed pump, Hayward Variflow Valve,
    Pentair 78DPD testing kit. Pool came with the house.
    Located Near Wilson NC.

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    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    The pool store closed yesterday unexpectedly, so my sample sits there....however, using my 78dpd kit, the numbers didn't change much over the day. Chlorine level dropped a tad, picking up a refill on bleach at lunch, 9 bucks for 3 gallons at the local Fred's Foods. Then to walmart to stock up on Borax and Baking soda, Lowes for some muriatic acid, and I should be good for a while. Hopefully I will find the store open today, because I do need some hardware. Downside to living in a town with one pool store.....they have you by the short and curlies when you need something right now.....
    Got the missus convinced that I need the good test kit from the site....I got that "more stuff, really?" look......
    27ft AG 17204 Gal, Hayward 300lb Sand filter
    Hayward 1hp single speed pump, Hayward Variflow Valve,
    Pentair 78DPD testing kit. Pool came with the house.
    Located Near Wilson NC.

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    Latest numbers are in, tested by the pool store.
    FC 1.1ppm
    TC 1.2 PPM
    CC 0.1 ppm (gotta get that up a bit-input?)
    ph 7.2 Working on an aerator to get that up a bit....(see? I do read pool school..... )
    Hardness 70 ppm (more calcium chloride?)
    Alk 163ppm (add muriatic acid) Surprisingly the pool guy said pick some up at the hardware store.....
    CYA 90 ppm
    copper 0.01 ppm
    Iron 0 ppm
    Phosphate 500 ppb(unsure of where to go
    with this.)
    Any input on the numbers that are off?

    Looks like I'm really close to perfect, just gotta keep it that way, time to start reading pool school some more.
    Picked up a new cover for the pump filter and a polaris fitting for the return (for my aerator build), 70 bucks, ouch!
    Got home last night to find our kids and a bunch of their friends in the pool, having a great time, maybe I'll find time to get in myself this weekend.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    27ft AG 17204 Gal, Hayward 300lb Sand filter
    Hayward 1hp single speed pump, Hayward Variflow Valve,
    Pentair 78DPD testing kit. Pool came with the house.
    Located Near Wilson NC.

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzie
    Latest numbers are in, tested by the pool store.
    FC 1.1ppm Too low. Waaaaay to low for 90 CYA. MINIMUM -at all times - is 7. If you trust the CYA test result...
    TC 1.2 PPM
    CC 0.1 ppm (gotta get that up a bit-input?) Wrong. Just fine as is. Anything below .5 is okay. Lower is better with CC. Zero is ideal.
    ph 7.2 Working on an aerator to get that up a bit....(see? I do read pool school..... )If you insist. It will rise on its own when people start splashing
    Hardness 70 ppm (more calcium chloride?)No. A vinyl pool doesn't care if CH is low
    Alk 163ppm (add muriatic acid) Surprisingly the pool guy said pick some up at the hardware store.....Yes, that will lower it, but it will also lower pH which is already at the low end.It will come down all by itself as you keep adjusting the pH which will rise in time. Also, you might be changing this number dramatically if you correct the next parameter.
    CYA 90 ppmToo high. The only way to lower it is by draining and refilling some of the water. But wait until you can test it yourself before you toss in a siphon hose.
    copper 0.01 ppmOK
    Iron 0 ppmOK
    Phosphate 500 ppb(unsure of where to go
    with this.)Nowhere. It doesn't matter except to the store owner who has phosphate remover to sell.
    Any input on the numbers that are off?

    Looks like I'm really close to perfect, just gotta keep it that way, time to start reading pool school some more.
    Picked up a new cover for the pump filter and a polaris fitting for the return (for my aerator build), 70 bucks, ouch!
    Got home last night to find our kids and a bunch of their friends in the pool, having a great time, maybe I'll find time to get in myself this weekend.
    So.. since your test kit is on its way, aside from raising FC, I wouldn't do much of anything until I had results I could trust.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    Couple of pics....
    Attached Images Attached Images
    27ft AG 17204 Gal, Hayward 300lb Sand filter
    Hayward 1hp single speed pump, Hayward Variflow Valve,
    Pentair 78DPD testing kit. Pool came with the house.
    Located Near Wilson NC.

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    Looks like I'm really close to perfect,
    Gonna' sound harsh, but you are FAR from it.


    Your FC is way too low

    Your CYA is too high.

    You have a misunderstanding of the CC's component of your pool water....you want CC's as low as possible

    Phosphates are irrelevant.

    Re - read "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzie
    Latest numbers are in, tested by the pool store.
    FC 1.1ppm Too low. Waaaaay to low for 90 CYA. MINIMUM -at all times - is 7. If you trust the CYA test result...
    Okaaay, just a tad confused....I'm having a hard time with the whole fc/tc/cc correlations, back to summer pool school, for me, I WILL graduate.....

    TC 1.2 PPM
    CC 0.1 ppm (gotta get that up a bit-input?) Wrong. Just fine as is. Anything below .5 is okay. Lower is better with CC. Zero is ideal.

    ph 7.2 Working on an aerator to get that up a bit....(see? I do read pool school..... )If you insist. It will rise on its own when people start splashing
    Ok, got it. But the kids really want a fountain of some sort........

    Hardness 70 ppm (more calcium chloride?)No. A vinyl pool doesn't care if CH is low
    Got that, so won't worry about it.

    Alk 163ppm (add muriatic acid) Surprisingly the pool guy said pick some up at the hardware store.....Yes, that will lower it, but it will also lower pH which is already at the low end.It will come down all by itself as you keep adjusting the pH which will rise in time. Also, you might be changing this number dramatically if you correct the next parameter.
    Ok, will leave alone

    CYA 90 ppmToo high. The only way to lower it is by draining and refilling some of the water. But wait until you can test it yourself before you toss in a siphon hose.
    test kit, test kit, test kit........got it, asap.

    copper 0.01 ppmOK

    Iron 0 ppmOK

    Phosphate 500 ppb(unsure of where to go
    with this.)Nowhere. It doesn't matter except to the store owner who has phosphate remover to sell.
    Figured as much.......

    Any input on the numbers that are off?

    Looks like I'm really close to perfect, just gotta keep it that way, time to start reading pool school some more.
    Picked up a new cover for the pump filter and a polaris fitting for the return (for my aerator build), 70 bucks, ouch!
    Got home last night to find our kids and a bunch of their friends in the pool, having a great time, maybe I'll find time to get in myself this weekend.
    So.. since your test kit is on its way, aside from raising FC, I wouldn't do much of anything until I had results I could trust.
    You do realize, when I get my test kit, my head is going to explode?
    27ft AG 17204 Gal, Hayward 300lb Sand filter
    Hayward 1hp single speed pump, Hayward Variflow Valve,
    Pentair 78DPD testing kit. Pool came with the house.
    Located Near Wilson NC.

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Looks like I'm really close to perfect,
    Gonna' sound harsh, but you are FAR from it.

    You guys have nothing on harsh, I'll take all the info I can get. Now my former employer? The USMC? they had harsh down pat.......


    Your FC is way too low

    Your CYA is too high.

    You have a misunderstanding of the CC's component of your pool water....you want CC's as low as possible

    Will start reading again this afternoon, kids are now all up(6 or 8, they won't stand still long enough for me to count) The missus is out, I'm alone with them, where's the prozac?.......

    Phosphates are irrelevant.

    Re - read "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School.
    27ft AG 17204 Gal, Hayward 300lb Sand filter
    Hayward 1hp single speed pump, Hayward Variflow Valve,
    Pentair 78DPD testing kit. Pool came with the house.
    Located Near Wilson NC.

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
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    Location
    Cypress, TX
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    130

    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    "You do realize, when I get my test kit, my head is going to explode? "

    Explode with "Knowledge" you mean!
    23x40 freeform w/spa, 28,000 gal. PCC-2000 in-floor cleaning. Pebble Sheen w/flagstone coping. 14' weeping wall, (2) 18" sheer descents. Sta Rite- cart 400 sqft. filter, Intellipro VS pump, 1hp (cleaning)2hp (water feature)Max E Pro's. Easy Touch 8 function w/IPod. Rainbow chlorinator, Paramount Clear O3 (I know, I know), Max-E-Therm 400K heater.

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: new numbers, what direction do I need to go?

    Knowledge is a good thing, Knowledge in the hands of stupid people is downright dangerous........and I'm not sure if I fall into the latter category.....
    Test kit will be ordered this weekend, then it's off to mad scientist school....
    I was in town over the weekend, so, just in case, I stocked up on supplies, Got the 3 B's and some muriatic acid. Friend of ours has seen what's been going on with our pool and has asked me to take a look at hers, it's been sitting 2 years, uncovered. Not comfortable with that yet, I can accept messing up mine, not someone elses. Maybe in the future....

    That being said, the family unit had a blast in the pool this weekend, thanks go out to all the members who have steered me in the right direction, making it posssible. Next weekend we are kid free, time to relax.
    27ft AG 17204 Gal, Hayward 300lb Sand filter
    Hayward 1hp single speed pump, Hayward Variflow Valve,
    Pentair 78DPD testing kit. Pool came with the house.
    Located Near Wilson NC.

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