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Thread: water loss

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    water loss

    I am new to pools and not certain how quickly water should evaporate, but I filled my pool last night and after clearing the whirly-birds out of the skimmer, I circulated the pool over night. I know it is kind of pointless since I have 0 FC in it, but I planned on starting a hardcore shock process and I guess mostly, I have just been struggling and spinning my wheels on this pool. anyway, I filled the pool a little high (as I have been doing for the past few fill ups) so I have excess water for back washing. I left the pool circulating last night and when I came out this morning, the skimmer was sucking empty because the water was too low. Wouldn't I notice where this water was going if it was leaking?
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

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    Join Date
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    Re: water loss

    That does not sound good. I don't think you even need to do the bucket test.
    24,000 20x42 double roman end in ground pool being built. Start date june13, 2012.
    Finished July 4th, 2012, sports pool, vinyl,SWG, DE filter, fountains. Heat pump,
    First Pool Ever!

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    Re: water loss

    Wouldn't I notice where this water was going if it was leaking?
    So are you saying you lost more than an inch overnight? If so, that's a leak....not evaporation.

    Find your leak before you shock the pool.

    Try refilling and then shut the pump off and see what that does. If it still leaks at a similar rate to last night, just let it keep on going down until it stops, the leak will be at that level.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: water loss

    I have a hayward sp-1080-E basket. Not sure what the skimmer model number is, but there is a pipe that comes up through the basket. If you look up the skimmer basket model number, you can get an idea of what size pipe comes up through it. anyway, this pipe was plugged with a rubber stopper when I first opened the pool and the store near my house said most likely (without looking at it) this pipe goes to nothing. They said most contractors stock a double line skimmer?!?! and that I should just plug it up again. If this is the case, then I think I could just get a similarly sized basket without the hole in it for that pipe and then just cut it below the basket line and cap it. What do you think? How could I even be sure what this pipe does? The pool seems pretty basic. 1 return pipe, for 2 returns, 1 suction line that comes from the bottom drain and the skimmer (not sure on that one). Oh, also, when I opened the pool and I took the rubber stopper out of the pipe coming up through the basket, it had some type of antifreeze because a chemical like fluid came out (the color of red) with some bubbles. Lastly, why would I have a return jet below the skimmer that has a piece that looks like the liner in it? Is this not a cap at all, and maybe more likely a connection that leads to the mystery pipe? some kind of inlet that feeds the skimmer in some way? If the pool wasn't green, I would take a picture of this thing that look like a capped return. It is roughly 6 inches to a foot below the skimmer entrance.
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

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    Re: water loss

    check all your connections, and piping what you can see my dad repair swimming pools and a lot of times these can be the culprites. Also put a piece of duct tape where your water line is and check it the following day to see how much it is dropping. That can be a determining factor if it is a leak in the liner or your hose or a connections somwhere. Hope things work out for you.
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    Re: water loss

    Thank you. I was gonna put a magic marker line on the inside of the edge of my skimmer box but the tape will work also. The wife is filling the pool as we speak, while I am at work. I will leave the pump off for the night and see if the level goes down. Just prior to leaving it like this, I am going to circulate it and check around the pump and sand filter for any obvious leaks. Thanks for the ideas everyone. Its greatly appreciated.
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

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    Re: water loss

    By the way.. I think this image will make sense of this extra tube I was talking about. [img][/img]


    Here it is called an equalizer line. Oh, also, to add to the water loss puzzle. I would like to point out that there was no gizmo/ice compensator in the skimmer when I opened it, so I am thinking that the possibility for underground damage is a little higher, especially since the pool was closed for two seasons like this. During the 2 seasons, the pool remained covered the entire time.
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

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    Re: water loss

    So..., if I go home and see that after 24 hours (today was around 70, partly sunny) and my pool is down 1 inch, is this too much? Just trying to gauge my evaporation without doing the bucket test.
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

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    Re: water loss

    Yes, an inch each day is too much...you have a leak.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: water loss

    ok, well like I said, that was just for a gauge. I got home and I would say that I lost roughly 1/8th to a 1/4 inch from the pool with the pump off and water still. Today I started the pump, noting that the tape to water mark is roughly the distance above apart from each other. I do have something I find odd. I do not have bubbles in the pump basket, which would be an indication of a leak on the suction side of the pump. I do however, have a small amount of bubbles blowing out of the return jets intermittently. Mostly from the return jet closest to the pump and a little less at the stairs. Would this be a clue to a possible problem?
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: water loss

    so, last night, we got rain here. The reason I point this out, is because I had water loss while circulating with rain fall. I guesstimate that I lost about 4 inches of water from 6pm to 5 am while circulating. I don't even know where to start with this project.. The water is green so I cant see any part of the pool to do a leak test kit.. I am ready to call the dirt trucks in to back fill this nightmare of a pool.
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

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    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: water loss

    If the water loss is different between pump off and pump on, then the leak is somewhere between your pump and the pool.

    Is there any way you could check each line? Do you have shut-off valves for each line? if you do have valves, close one at a time to isolate which line it is.

    Be prepared to dig up a little of your concrete deck if you have that.

    Does your local rental center have a underground locator you can rent? If so, you can pass an electrician's fish tape down the suspect pipe to give the locator something to follow. Yes, this will mean cutting the suspect pipe at the valve to give you access to push the fish tape into the pipe. You can get through any bends in the pipe by putting a 45* bend in the end of the fish tape, and working it around until it passes through. This way, you can minimize the amount of concrete you have to cut/patch to a shovel width, just enough to give you access to replace the offending pipe, unless it's the main drain.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: water loss

    so the main drain leaking wouldn't suck air into the pump basket? I may get lucky in that the pipes seem to follow along the outside of the concrete. I am guessing the pool had leaked once before and they decided to put the piping on the outside of the concrete. I suppose I could make a fitting that I could hook up a low pressure amount from my compressor and then watch a gauge that I put on the fitting to test which section of piping I am leaking from. The one that loses pressure over time would be the culprit. The tool you mention.. I am mechanically inclined, but even still, I have no idea what you are talking about. I will look it up and see if it is something I can handle
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

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    Re: water loss

    I got home and I would say that I lost roughly 1/8th to a 1/4 inch from the pool with the pump off and water still.
    Then, that's probably not a leak.

    I have lost track of whether you are trying to find a leak or fix the air in your returns??? If it's both, that air can ONLY be introduced from the suction side and it is almost never underground. Certainly can be, but "almost never" is correct.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: water loss

    ok, so the underground locator.. I guess I feel pretty dumb right now because I see it finds where your underground pipes and conduit are located. Based on the repair I did on the 1st inline return that I dug up, the tee where it tee's off was on the outside of the concrete [img][/img]
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: water loss

    I am understanding that no air, meaning only water should be coming from the returns. I have a small spurt that comes from the first inline return, and I am having a hard time seeing if the stair return is having similar spurts. I looked at the filter and I can hardly tell that there is even water flowing through, which indicates to me that there is no air entering there. As for the first inline return, the initial problem was that someone capped the tee leading to the return jet and put a rubber stopper on the pool side of the jet. After fixing the plumbing to the jet, I turned the pump on and noticed bubbles pouring out of the edges of this return. When I placed my hand along the outside of the jet, I could feel water being squeezed out of the sides of the jet. Upon further inspecting this, I removed the face plate behind the eyeball and noticed there was not a gasket. I made a trip to the store and picked up a few gaskets. I placed 2 gaskets behind the face plate and this stopped the pressure from coming out of the sides of the return jet, all except for the spot where this face plate has a missing screw. I intend to replace this screw but this cant be where I am picking up air, unless it is creating a venturi and pulling air through the fitting, that attaches the return lines, to the side of the pool (which is where the eye ball screws into). I still haven't sealed up the hole which is seen in the image I attached. I wanted to make certain that the plumbing job I did is holding before filling it back in. I cant see the 1 screw missing being the issue that is making my water level drop
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: water loss

    worst case scenario, can I drain the pool to get at the drain? The pool place near me said "NEVER drain a vinyl lined pool"
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: water loss

    I am thinking the best chance I can have is a hairline fracture somewhere in the skimmer drain. Think about it... There was no gizmo or any ice compensator in the skimmer well for 2 years or more. I am no expert but what is the purpose of the gizmo? I understand that it alleviates the pressures of expansion and contraction, but how does it connect to or sit in the skimmer box? it is only purpose to be the void in the box should it ice over? I seen a video where a pool company had closed the pool with a half filled jug of anti-freeze. Anyway, my pool had a rubber stopper in the drain of the skimmer and nothing to compensate for the ice contraction and expansion. And to further theorize, maybe the reason the pool only leaks when the pump is running, is because the pump suction pulls the hairline fracture open under vacuum!?!?!
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: water loss

    Bobby32x,

    Your leak has nothing to do with the skimmers. You have a leak in the pressure side of the system, as by your description of losing 4" of water overnight with the pump running, and only 1" a day with the pump off. A leak in the pressure side will leak even with the pump off, which is what you are describing.

    A leak in the skimmer (suction side) would present as the pump losing prime by introducing air into the strainer basket on the pump. Water would NOT flow out of the skimmer connections with the pump running, air would be sucked in.

    You won't need to drain your pool.

    I suspect that whoever did the plumbing on your pool didn't adequately clean a joint before gluing, and now you have a small channel in the glue, allowing a drip with the pump off, and a spray with the pump on. You would not necessarily see a wet spot if the offending connection is under your concrete next to the pool. Another possibility is that the dirt around your plumbing wasn't packed well enough before concrete was poured, and has shifted (settled), cracking a pipe.

    Look into this before you do much else, even though it may require a bit of digging.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: water loss

    I will give my pressure test theory a try. not that I will hear the hiss of a leaking line, but I think trying this prior to digging is still my best option. Thank you for the advice Charlie and everyone else who chimed in
    32,000 gallon Grecian style I/G 1hp AO Smith replace pump. Hayward sand filter (S-244T).

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