Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 44

Thread: Broken Lateral(s)

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    336

    Broken Lateral(s)

    I am continuing to shock and vacuum.

    I was to the point where I thought DE should be added to assist in getting the "fines" out of the water. But I knew I wanted to vac/sweep this weekend one additional time so I decided to add the DE after I finished up with that.

    Upon vac/ sweep yesterday ~ I checked my return to eye the return for pressure (checking to see if I needed to empty my basket that collects swept debris). When I looked I saw debris being returned to the pool. I thought I noticed this happening before when sweeping, but the water wasn't clear enough to know for certain. This also doesn't happen they I can see when I am not vacuuming.

    Now ~ I have a titan sand filter. Are laterals specific to brand of filter? Also with this being Memorial weekend my pool store is closed ~ guessing the majority will be. Do I open that filter up and see if this is just a case of channeled sand too much sand in the tank, possible lateral not laying as it should ~ or do I wait until Tuesday when my pool store is open so I can buy a few replacement laterals once I have this opened up & sand removed?

    Your thoughts / guidance would be appreciated.
    AGP: 27' x 52" : 17,500 gallon
    300 lb. Sand Filter (75 gpm) / 1.5 hp pump
    Full Sun ~ All Day

  2. Back To Top    #2

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    I suspect you haven't backwashed and rinsed your filter well enough. I wouldn't assume it was the laterals until I had done those two things correctly and then opened the filter and visually inspected the sand.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Smykowski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Gurnee, IL (North Suburban Chi-town)
    Posts
    3,065

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    Laterals will be filter specific. However, I wouldn't buy them until you know you need them. Try the easier/cheaper fixes first (which you touched on above). Channeled sand likely wouldn't lead to sand returning to the pool, but if they aren't seated right, that definitely would.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    336

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    I will backwash and rinse thoroughly. I have done so twice since we opened.

    I will see how that goes and then open up and give it a visual inspection.

    Thank you both.
    AGP: 27' x 52" : 17,500 gallon
    300 lb. Sand Filter (75 gpm) / 1.5 hp pump
    Full Sun ~ All Day

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    336

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    I backwashed and rinsed.

    I released pressure, took the top off and inspected the sand. I put my arm down in as far as I was able and felt no bound sand. I got the garden hose & introduced it in several places in the tank and let it do it's thing. I see nothing out of the ordinary.

    Am I missing anything before I put this back together? SHould I do something additional, look for anything else. I did lube the oring on the tank top.

    I cannot reach the laterals with my fingers and I obviously cannot see them. But I do not feel anything other than free flowing sand & it look as clean as I would expect even when the garden hose was introduced.
    AGP: 27' x 52" : 17,500 gallon
    300 lb. Sand Filter (75 gpm) / 1.5 hp pump
    Full Sun ~ All Day

  6. Back To Top    #6

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    So now that you have rinsed thoroughly and resettled the sand bed, you should be able to go to the filter position and have clean water go into your pool.

    If it does not, it is possible you did not rinse long enough or that the spider gasket in the multi port is defective. Tells us what happens now when you go back to "filter".
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    336

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    Water appears to be clean ~ once air bubbles moved through. I saw no debris visibly.

    I have never noticed constant dirt returning to pool, it only seems to appear during vacuuming or after.

    I am going to observe it & I do need to vacuum today as I am still working on keeping the water moving, sweeping debris that can be caught with the vac ~ etc. I was trying to go with the gauge to let me know when I needed to backwash, it registers when it turns on just fine, it zeros out when off, but it doesn't climb/ raise after I vacuum. Maybe I need to backwash more than I have been.

    Note to self ~ tube lube & craftsman tool handles do not play well together when hastily connecting pipes and speed is of the essence!

    If you can think of anything else I should be doing please don't hesitate to bring it to my attention. I do appreciate the help this morning ~ thanks so much!
    AGP: 27' x 52" : 17,500 gallon
    300 lb. Sand Filter (75 gpm) / 1.5 hp pump
    Full Sun ~ All Day

  8. Back To Top    #8

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    A really dirty pool can fill up a filter very quickly and cause the dirt to come back to the pool. You should vacuum when your clean psi goes up about 25%. If you are seeing absolutely no increase in psi after vacuuming a DIRTY pool, your gauge is probably broken.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    336

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    Ok ~ I will get a new gauge next trip out, but will backwash disregarding the gauge until then by appearance of the baskets. At this point I have gotten the majority out.

    Now if I had broken/incorrectly seated, functioning laterals I would have a constant dirty return, correct? Have I ruled out faulty laterals by this morning's exercises?

    Thanks for everything here and everything in the post (my kit & reagents) I appreciate it all
    AGP: 27' x 52" : 17,500 gallon
    300 lb. Sand Filter (75 gpm) / 1.5 hp pump
    Full Sun ~ All Day

  10. Back To Top    #10

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    Now if I had broken/incorrectly seated, functioning laterals I would have a constant dirty return, correct? Have I ruled out faulty laterals by this morning's exercises?
    Yeah, I think that is a valid statement. I have learned never to say, "never" but I think laterals were not the problem.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    336

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    I went about my business yesterday, sweeping/vacuuming. I went through the backwash/rinse cycle twice ~ I noticed my pressure on backwash has no "gusto" unless I press down on my handle that changes my options (filter, backwash, rinse).

    When I hooked back up to continue vacuuming I went back to the place I left off, started sweeping & a dirty cloud of water was returned to the pool. Now my water ran clear after the backwash/rinse so I assumed I had allowed it to clean itself properly. I am getting no visible dirty water on the backwash itself, but I do let it backwash and then when I turn it off, move to rinse, power back up I see dirty water and I let it run to clean and then let it run at least an additional minute.

    At the beginning of the season, I cleaned the gasket (spider gasket) filter is 1 season old so the gasket looked brand new and was seated properly. I relubed and put the unit back together.

    The low flow from backwash has me concerned. I don't understand why the flow would be low when last year it gushed.
    And again I have dirty water returning to the pool ~ this only happens when I vac/sweep ~ but I am backwashing and rinsing and observing clean water when it rinses and I do let the clean water flow for a time to ensure my system has cleaned itself.

    I truly don't know what to think, but I am either doing something wrong or have a problem. I am into week 2 of shocking (maintaining shock levels with clorox 8.25%), and the water is not clearing I am at a standstill. I can see bottom of pool, but can't get it to clear and I am wondering if I don't have issues. I do know the dirty water returning to the pool isn't helping & would like to avoid the pool store if at all possible because I am afraid they will just have me buying stuff I don't need as it relates to "repair" of this issue.

    If someone can offer some advice (again) I would appreciate it.
    AGP: 27' x 52" : 17,500 gallon
    300 lb. Sand Filter (75 gpm) / 1.5 hp pump
    Full Sun ~ All Day

  12. Back To Top    #12

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    The low flow from backwash has me concerned. I don't understand why the flow would be low when last year it gushed
    What is your current backwash psi on the gauge and what was it last year?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    336

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    We determined after my initial post that I need to replace the gauge, I am doing so today, I don't have a pressure reading with any kind of accuracy until I change that gauge out. I can tell you this though when the handle is seated in the backwash position there is no pressure on the water coming out when I turn the pump on. Last year it gushed out. Now if I press down on the handle the flow pick up heavily and has pressure behind it. It also has pressure behind in when it rinses (I odn't have to touch the handle at all it just moves out with force). Backwash though if I don't monkey with the handle it just comes out ever so slightly.
    AGP: 27' x 52" : 17,500 gallon
    300 lb. Sand Filter (75 gpm) / 1.5 hp pump
    Full Sun ~ All Day

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    336

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    Called my pool store guy as the pool is new and I haven't used this new filter even one whole season.

    He said the dirty water is returning to the pool sporadically because something inside is blocked. I need to take the head apart again and visually inspect as it sounds like the gasket might have shifted.

    Tonight I will tear it apart and see what I can see.
    AGP: 27' x 52" : 17,500 gallon
    300 lb. Sand Filter (75 gpm) / 1.5 hp pump
    Full Sun ~ All Day

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    336

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    8 psi ~ filtering with old gauge & new gauge
    just slightly under 8 with old gauge & new gauge backwashing

    about 4 psi when using the vacuum.

    Now I took it apart again. Visually inspected everything. The spider gasket looks as if it came off the shelf brand new (I had just cleaned it and lubed it the other day), no nicks, rips, tears or place where it isn't adhered. Nothing appears stuck, in any position of the multiport.

    I did vacuum tonight and got some debris in the basket, I backwashed and rinsed (ran through the procedure twice, properly) ~ that I saw I did not have fouled water return to the pool. Am a bit nervous to vacuum more than about 5 minutes and it's a major pita to constantly be checking. I know with our inground pool / de filter we could sweep considerably longer and never had anything gross returning via returns. Not knocking it or complaining ~ just stating it as a point of reference.

    I am going to keep at it.

    I have been maintaining shock levels since last Saturday ~ the 18th when I introduced the cya to bring me to 30 ~ I am actually at a cya of 35 (when I let the water warm to house temp). I have been able to make out the bottom, it did get better I believe on 4th day I felt I turned the corned, but I am unable to progress past the clarity of the day we felt we turned the corner. It is just hanging at this level of murk. I realize I had a couple incidents of fouled water returning to the pool. Even with that, maintaining shock level for 10 days, I can't imagine it is not clear and I also can't imagine how many more cases of clorox I am going to need.

    My ph was where it needed to be when I started 7.2-7.5 range definitely closer to 7.2. CYA 35 which I initially thought was 30 but I had topped off with extra to account for sun burning some off. I have no cc's ~ I add the 5 drops and haven't seem pink since the first couple days.

    Is there something more that I should be doing? Am I doing something incorrectly? Had my water been complete and total disaster I would be wondering at this point if we would swim at all this summer, because even with what it is currently there seems no end in site.

    If you can think of anything I should be testing for or doing please let me know. And I do thank you for all the help to date.
    AGP: 27' x 52" : 17,500 gallon
    300 lb. Sand Filter (75 gpm) / 1.5 hp pump
    Full Sun ~ All Day

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,334

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by DKT113
    I went about my business yesterday, sweeping/vacuuming. I went through the backwash/rinse cycle twice ~ I noticed my pressure on backwash has no "gusto" unless I press down on my handle that changes my options (filter, backwash, rinse).

    When I hooked back up to continue vacuuming I went back to the place I left off, started sweeping & a dirty cloud of water was returned to the pool.
    Here's at least part of your problem. By pressing down on the handle while backwashing you're sending dirty water to all parts of the filter and all ports of the valve, so when you put it back in filter and start vacuuming it starts clearing out all the dirty water that was in the filter and naturally it returns it to the pool. You should not press the handle down at all while the pump is running. Beside letting dirty water go every where you stand the chance of dislodging the spider gasket and possibly even tearing it.

    If the filter isn't producing the proper flow on backwash, you need to find out why with the pump off.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,334

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    Can you post pics of the pool and equipment?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    336

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    I will post pictures tonight as I am currently in the office.

    Thank you.
    AGP: 27' x 52" : 17,500 gallon
    300 lb. Sand Filter (75 gpm) / 1.5 hp pump
    Full Sun ~ All Day

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    336

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    Pictures to show the water
    & also pump and filter.

    If you need anything additional please let me know.





    AGP: 27' x 52" : 17,500 gallon
    300 lb. Sand Filter (75 gpm) / 1.5 hp pump
    Full Sun ~ All Day

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    336

    Re: Broken Lateral(s)

    If I need to put up different pictures, please let me know.

    It's a basic sand filter, with 2 hoses ~ I don't have them mixed up as 1 comes from the skimmer to the pump the other goes from filter to return.

    I have taken apart and examined the multiport head several times, cleaned it and lubed it ~ I see and feel no obstructions in and of the positions. Tonight both gauges showed zero pressure as I backwashed, no dirty water was expressed, the flow was weak. When I powered off and went to rinse dirty was did flow for probably 10 seconds, I let it run clean for an additional minute.

    Water still cloudy. Maintaining shock level appropriate for my cya (last tested at 35 with room temp water)

    Keeping on keeping on ~ just wondering if there isn't something the matter with the filter itself, as I feel next year I need to break out the ice fishing augers in about December if we want to swim in the summer. It's slow going on the clear up.
    AGP: 27' x 52" : 17,500 gallon
    300 lb. Sand Filter (75 gpm) / 1.5 hp pump
    Full Sun ~ All Day

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •