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Thread: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

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    Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Hi,
    I'm new to forum but have read many many posts on here. We had our pool opened on May 9th. I tried going to a Leslies that just opened up by me and the readings he got were as follows.
    FC 5, TC 5, PH 8, ALK 280, CYA 10, TDS 1900 Phosphates 0 that was on 5/15 He told me to start adding muratic acid to bring down level of alkalinity. I did that. I went back a about a day later and readings were FC, TC 3, PH 7.9, Alk 190, CYA 0, Calcium Hardness 230, TDS 2000, Phosphates 0. Again he said to add muratic acid, so I did.
    On 5/20 I went back again and the readings were FC 3, TC 3, ph 220, Alk 220 (they went up??) Calcium 240 and TDS 2000 phosphates 0.

    I became frustrated and went back to my usual place. The readings were TOTALLY different. She said I had 0 FC, and ammonia was off the charts. They suggested to dump down to 18-24 inches of pool and refill pool. I did that. I went back and took in another test and here were results. TC .4, FC 0, ph 7.6, Alk 290, Hardness 257. So I didn't want to dump and fill again our pool is 28,000 gal and an Lshape. So she called bioguard and they suggested 25 lbs of super soluble and 53 bags of burnout 3. WE did that. Took the test back on 5/24 and ammonia still high but she said the ratios were getting better. They called bioguard again and they suggested to add 15 lbs of burnout 35 last night and then again this morning. Here are the readings I have gotten using the TF-100 kit
    CL 2, PH 6.8, FC 1, CC 12.5, TC 13.5, Alk 230, CYA 30

    What are we doing wrong or is this just going to take time to fix?? I have spent $400+ on shock already and can't really afford to keep dumping more chemicals for it not to work. I really like the place I take samples to, the only reason I tried somewhere else is because it was much closer.

    Any suggestions for us? The pool size is 40x20x18 L shape. Water was cloudy and dirty initially. I vacuumed but to waste but couldn't see deep end so I am sure I missed alot. WAter has continued to be cloudy and a fine dirt continues on bottom and stairs. I have vaccumed again and continually brush, I have cleaned sand filter with strip kwik.

    Thanks,
    Tracey
    Tracey
    Elgin, IL
    40x20x18 L-shaped vinyl lined pool
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D sand filter
    Pentair Mastertemp 250 heater

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Welcome to tfp, gerks9800

    Quote Originally Posted by gerks9800
    What are we doing wrong or is this just going to take time to fix?? I have spent $400+ on shock already and can't really afford to keep dumping more chemicals for it not to work. I really like the place I take samples to, the only reason I tried somewhere else is because it was much closer.
    Well it is likely they are right about the ammonia. Most likely over the winter a bacteria converted your cya to ammonia. Ammonia takes a lot of chlorine to remove it. It take about 10 ppm FC to convert every 1 ppm of ammonia, so you still have a ways to go.

    First off it is good that you have an appropriate test kit! I would avoid the pool store chemicals (for the most part) and testing from here on out. It is likely their testing is wrong.

    The process is similar to the shocking process. See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...king_your_pool The big difference being that at the beginning your FC will drop very fast, so if you can do this portion while you have some time at home, that will be best. Once your CC level has dropped down closer to 0, then the process will be just like the shocking process. While doing this it is best to use bleach/liquid chlorine to dose.

    Before you start, you should raise you ph up to 7.2 (ph that reads 6.8, could be lower). Do this with Borax.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Where do you find borax and how much do I use?
    Tracey
    Elgin, IL
    40x20x18 L-shaped vinyl lined pool
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D sand filter
    Pentair Mastertemp 250 heater

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    You can find borax at the grocery store,Walmart. Use pool calc. to find out how much to use.


    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Typically it is labeled "20 mule team"
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Welcome to the forum, Tracey,
    I really like the place I take samples to, the only reason I tried somewhere else is because it was much closer.
    To make our help work the best, Tracey, you will need to stay away from both Leslie's and that store. I'm serious. You have been getting friendly, but incorrect advice and what you hear from us will be different than what you hear from them. If you try to listen to differing information, you will be hopelessly caught in the middle. Trust your own testing....those test results you did are reliable and make sense.....the others do not.

    I'm gonna' use some of Linen's text (besides, he LOVES to be quoted )
    Before you start, you should raise you ph up to 7.2 (ph that reads 6.8, could be lower). Do this with Borax.
    Raising your pH will only take about an hour so now you are ready to start the shock process.....

    read "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School

    read "How to Shock Your Pool" up in Pool School

    Like Linen said, your FC will likely drop like a hot rock at first while it's burning up the ammonia so have PLENTY of Clorox on hand and test it as often as 4-5 times daily.......this will slow down dramatically once the ammonia is burned up.

    So, no more expensive unnecessary chemistry and no more pool store advice. You're gonna clear your pool with chlorine and it will sparkle like a diamond very soon....honestly.

    Ask lot's of questions and report your progress.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Ok I will try what you are telling me. We have people coming over soon so probably won't get to this today. Kids are asking if they can swim today? What are your thoughts?
    Tracey
    Elgin, IL
    40x20x18 L-shaped vinyl lined pool
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D sand filter
    Pentair Mastertemp 250 heater

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Swimming today would not be safe. The ammonia in your pool is eating up all the chlorine very quickly. There's no chlorine available to attack any bacteria in the water that could make the kiddos sick.
    28K, 20' x 40' IG - Vinyl Liner, Hayward DE Filter, 1.5HP Pump, 250K Hayward BTU Heater, Aquabot Breeze 4WD robotic cleaner

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    I wouldn't let swimmers in with that high CC level, it can be very irritating.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Ok so last night we added the bleach after getting our PH up to 7.2. My readings at 9:30 last night were CC 6.5 and FC .5. This morning I ran all the tests and here is what I have.
    PH 7.2, FC 1, CC 5, TC 6, Alk 290 (still high)
    Where do I need to be for my totals on FC and CC? I feel they are getting better due to the fact the numbers are closer together, right?
    Thanks,
    Tracey
    Tracey
    Elgin, IL
    40x20x18 L-shaped vinyl lined pool
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D sand filter
    Pentair Mastertemp 250 heater

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    With a CYA level of 30, your shock level is 13. You need to add enough bleach to bring FC up to 13. Wait an hour. Test. Add more bleach to bring it up to 13. Repeat as often as necessary to keep the FC above 13. If you let FC get below , you are allowing the algae to repopulate. Did I mention keep it above 13?

    Once the shock process is in progress don't worry about any tests other than FC and CC. pH will be inaccurate and the rest of the parameters won't change enough to matter.

    Go back and read the Pool School article on how to shock your pool. It will start to make a lot more sense.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Thanks! Off to get more bleach and add add add until I get to FC of 13. FC needs to be at 13, right??
    Tracey
    Elgin, IL
    40x20x18 L-shaped vinyl lined pool
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D sand filter
    Pentair Mastertemp 250 heater

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Quote Originally Posted by gerks9800
    Thanks! Off to get more bleach and add add add until I get to FC of 13. FC needs to be at 13, right??
    yep
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Question:
    I started the day with FC 1, CC 5, TC 6
    Next test FC 2, CC 7, TC 9
    Just tested and FC 1, CC 8.5, TC 9.5
    Did I do something wrong? I am using the pool calculator and adding the amount it says. Or is this normal for getting rid of ammonia?
    Tracey
    Elgin, IL
    40x20x18 L-shaped vinyl lined pool
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D sand filter
    Pentair Mastertemp 250 heater

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Are you adding chlorine? If yes, then what you are showing could be believable.

    Just to check...are you using the fas-dpd test? If yes, the first value you get is FC and the second after adding the R-0003 reagent is the CC?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    I am adding bleach like the earlier post suggested. I am not sure what test is it's in the TF-100 kit. I use 10 ml pool water then add the powder R-0870 (get my number) then add the R-0003 for hte CC reading. So I am doing this right?
    Tracey
    Elgin, IL
    40x20x18 L-shaped vinyl lined pool
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D sand filter
    Pentair Mastertemp 250 heater

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    So I am doing this right?
    Yes, I think you are! YOU NEED MORE CHLORINE, though.

    Keep your FC right back up to about 12 ppm or just a bit more and replenish it back to 12 ppm as often as you can. The CC's test result is not included in there so your current FC is only 1 or 2. YOU NEED MORE CHLORINE!

    (sorry to be obnoxious, only trying to make a point.)

    If you will get your chlorine in ther back up to 12 ppm, the cc's will start to reduce and your FC will stick around a bit longer...YOU NEED MORE CHLORINE! (Ok, I'll shut up)

    That test you are using with the white powder for FC and CC's is called the FAS/DPD chlorine test. It is the heart and sole of the TF-100 and why it and the K-2006 stand out from all the other kits.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Ok so should I be adding more chlorine than what the pool calculator is telling me?? I am adding about a gal plus everytime I do it. This last time it called for 174 oz. Should I double or triple this amount to get it up to the 12/13. I don't know how to get it up there faster except to do more than what it is telling me.
    Tracey
    Elgin, IL
    40x20x18 L-shaped vinyl lined pool
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D sand filter
    Pentair Mastertemp 250 heater

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    I just realized what I was doing wrong. I never changed the FC reading on poolcalculator up to 12 so it was only showing me what to adjust it for to bring it up to a 4!!! Just added a TON of bleach and hopefully that will work!
    Tracey
    Elgin, IL
    40x20x18 L-shaped vinyl lined pool
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D sand filter
    Pentair Mastertemp 250 heater

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    Re: Chlorine Demand that just won't go away...

    Check it again very soon (4 hours) and add more if you need to
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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