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Thread: 2 problems

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    2 problems

    Hi, I am a new user and I hope you can help me.

    I have an in ground plaster pool, approx. 15,000 gallons. Cartridge filters. Hayward pump. No heater.
    Last water read:
    PH 7.2
    TA 80
    CA 55 CH 375
    TDS 900
    PHOS 100

    I have staining around walls. I have done the abscorbic stain remover test but it didn't work. The stain is like algae which has seeped into the plaster. It looks dirty. I have used algecides, stain remover but nothing is shifting it. I am having algae grow back the very next day. I have used Phos free too. Just tonight I added Algae Control from Leslies followed by 6lbs of shock to try and kill the algae. The staining could be organic or copper? I tested the stain with Jacks Magic Copper and Scale Stuff last year and it lifted but It seemed like a large project for me and I wasn't confident that I could follow all of the instructions. My chlorine does not seem to be staying in the pool although the guys at the shop (Leslies) said everything was in balance.
    10,000K plaster, cartridge filter Pentair 420, no heater, in ground pool, Pentair Pump. Taylor K-2006 kit.
    Dallas, TX

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: 2 problems

    Welcome!

    Stains can be dealt with later. If algae is reappearing overnight, it's not really killed off.

    So you'll understand what we're typing, you need to study Pool School uintil you feel like

    Briefly, you need a decent test kit and the shock process. It's all covered in Pool School.

    And by the way - all this money you've spent with the "experts" is a common sign of being Pool-stored. You just learned a new word!
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: 2 problems

    Welcome, as Richard noted it sounds like your problem is at least partly algae, but to get an idea of what is going on we need a bit more information, mainly how do you chlorinate your pool and what is your FC, CC and CYA levels. So that you can better understand the advice we give you I too suggest reading through the pool school link a couple of times, paying particular attention to the shocking process part.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: 2 problems

    Thanks for the replies.

    CYA is 55
    FA was 0 tonight before treatment
    CC what is CC?

    I use mainly use power powder shock granules to shock. I have just started using the 3" tabs too. Both in the floater and in the chlorinator.

    Thanks
    10,000K plaster, cartridge filter Pentair 420, no heater, in ground pool, Pentair Pump. Taylor K-2006 kit.
    Dallas, TX

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: 2 problems

    BTW - I have had chlorine in the pool, it's just that it is disappearing overnight......put 6lbs in tonight after using an algaecide
    10,000K plaster, cartridge filter Pentair 420, no heater, in ground pool, Pentair Pump. Taylor K-2006 kit.
    Dallas, TX

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: 2 problems

    FC is Free Chlorine, and CC is Combined Chlorine (or Chloromines)

    Powdered shock can be a number of things, Most likely Cal-Hypo or Dichlor, but could also by Tricchlor or much less likely Lithium Hypo. The pool school link in the upper right will tell you all about them, the good and bad points, etc. Regardless of which you are using, if your test results are right I strongly suggest switching to liquid Chlorine / Bleach for regular chlorination. All the dry chlorine products add chlorine plus something else, in the case of Cal-Hypo it is chlorine plus Calcium, your CH level is already 375 and we generally advise keeping it below 400 if possible, Dichlor and TriChlor add Chlorine plus CYA, yours is at 75 if the test is to be trusted (pool stores seem to get this one wrong more than anything else, but it is also the hardest test to run and get accurate results with), we generally consider 75 to be at the very upper limit of what can be maintained without having algae problems, and generally suggest lowering it by water replacement to the 40-50 range if you have an algae problem if at all possible (not under water restrictions, etc.). While it is possible to maintain a pool with a CYA level of 75 it does make killing off algae very difficult if it ever takes hold.

    Ike

    p.s. not being able to maintain chlorine in a situation like this is a sure sign of algae
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: 2 problems

    My CYA is 55 not 75?
    10,000K plaster, cartridge filter Pentair 420, no heater, in ground pool, Pentair Pump. Taylor K-2006 kit.
    Dallas, TX

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    stevenm's Avatar
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    Re: 2 problems

    Welcome to TFP!

    As suggested above, please read through Pool School to better understand our care methods and terminology. It's not a formality; we really can't help unless you understand where we're coming from.

    It sounds like you've been heavily pool-stored, probably along with some bad test results. As mentioned in Pool School, you need to purchase a good test kit in order to get accurate measurements and to start shocking more effectively (by the way, "shock" is used as a verb here, not a noun). Never trust the pool store's results.

    A high FC loss means algae, plain and simple. You need to follow the shocking guide in Pool School until you can pass the OCLT

    Good luck!
    27,000 gal. vinyl in-ground pool w/ 1.5" piping, 1 HP Pentair SuperFlo pump, Hayward Pro Series sand filter

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: 2 problems

    Sorry I must have mis-read, 55 is still a little above our suggested maximum range, so the advice to switch away from powdered chlorine still stands.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: 2 problems

    Hello again and thank you for the replies.

    So, last night I shocked the pool with 6lbs of powder chlorine after using the algaecide. Algae seems to have gone and I have my numbers again after returning from the pool shop. He gave me a bottle of Metal out for free just to see if it helps with stains.
    I will definitely think about changing my chlorine to a liquid form.

    FC 2.0
    TC 2.0
    CH 325
    CYA 65 If I should lower it, how do I do that?
    TA 100
    PH 7.3
    Copper 0
    TDS 1000

    I have read and will keep reading the Pool School. I have a testing kit. It appears my chemicals are all within range.

    I still don't know what the stains are around my pool. Tested for metals and not that. What else could it be. I am going to try and attach a picture for you to see. If it is organic staining, what can I try for that?

    Thanks
    10,000K plaster, cartridge filter Pentair 420, no heater, in ground pool, Pentair Pump. Taylor K-2006 kit.
    Dallas, TX

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: 2 problems

    Here are 2 photos.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    10,000K plaster, cartridge filter Pentair 420, no heater, in ground pool, Pentair Pump. Taylor K-2006 kit.
    Dallas, TX

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: 2 problems

    Last one
    Attached Images Attached Images
    10,000K plaster, cartridge filter Pentair 420, no heater, in ground pool, Pentair Pump. Taylor K-2006 kit.
    Dallas, TX

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: 2 problems

    The only practical way to lower your CYA is through water replacement, hence my advice about avoiding those dry chlorine products above, I suspect the 6 pounds of dry shock you used was Dichlor based shock since your CYA has went up by 10 ppm
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: 2 problems

    Thanks but why does it say CYA should be within range of 30-99? if mine is 55 or now 65 this is still below the high end. I don't understand?
    10,000K plaster, cartridge filter Pentair 420, no heater, in ground pool, Pentair Pump. Taylor K-2006 kit.
    Dallas, TX

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: 2 problems

    The pool shop doesn't understand either. None of them understand the FC/CYA relationship, hence the wildly inaccurate results and even wildly-er target range for it.

    If those test results are to be believed, your FC is way too low for maintenence, let alone the shocking process.

    What kind of kit do you have, and why aren't you using it? At some point you will have to decide if you want to use pool store advice our follow our methods, because they do not play well together.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: 2 problems

    Who says 99, the pool store?

    For more detailed understanding of CYA I suggest reading through these threads, as well as the links they refer to for more detailed understanding of the technical issues of CYA to Chlorine relationship

    chlorine-cya-chart-t2346.html

    and

    pool-water-chemistry-t628.html

    p.s. for our suggested levels see this link which is part of pool school

    pool-school/recommended_levels
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: 2 problems

    Ok, so what do I do? How much FC should it stay at daily and should I put more in tonight? I need a little more instruction please.
    10,000K plaster, cartridge filter Pentair 420, no heater, in ground pool, Pentair Pump. Taylor K-2006 kit.
    Dallas, TX

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: 2 problems

    Yes, I have my Water Analysis Report and the recommended range printed in black and white says Range 30-99ppm?
    10,000K plaster, cartridge filter Pentair 420, no heater, in ground pool, Pentair Pump. Taylor K-2006 kit.
    Dallas, TX

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: 2 problems

    See the ps I added to my last message about OUR suggested levels, then I again strongly suggest reading over pool school a couple of times, until you get a good grasp on what is going on with your pool you will continue to have problems balancing it. My additional advice is to order one of the suggested pool test kits if you don't already have one so you can test water yourself, cleaning up an algae bloom requires a good test kit an very frequent testing (hourly) at the start of the process, or you risk using way more chemicals than you need, plus possible damage to your pool and equipment. To get your pool down to our suggested CYA level will require replacing about 1/3 of your water, there is no sense in trying to fight the algae until you get the above steps done.
    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: 2 problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Catherineb
    Yes, I have my Water Analysis Report and the recommended range printed in black and white says Range 30-99ppm?
    They're in business to sell you algae chemicals. And they stop the test at 99 because otherwise they'd have to mess around diluting the sample to get a reading. If they write 99+, or 100+ or anything over 90, really, they're lying and you're waaay high. But they'll sell you yellow-out of oxy-something or power-something to kill off the algae you wouldn't even have if you understood and followed the CYA/FC relationship.

    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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