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Thread: Am I using it correctly?

  1. Back To Top    #1
    JFB's Avatar
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    Am I using it correctly?

    Ok. Here is my question...

    I was running the pump 24/7 and the SWG at 45%. During the daytime (lots of sun exposure), my FC would drop down to 0.5 and below. I wanted to run the pump for 14 hours (7am to 9pm), so I did some math and set the SWG at 85% last night. Last night, I test FC, and see 1.0 to 1.5 ish. Today, I test at noonish, and get FC of 0.5 and below. I bumped up the SWG to 95%, and when I tested at 8:30pm tonight, FC sat at 1.0 to 1.5 ish. I should add that sunrise is about 5:15am and sunset is about 8pm.

    Now I don't have much more room to go on the SWG (already at 95%). I would hate to have to build up chlorine during the night just to have enough to last me the day the next day. This would suck for a morning swim, as I hate the feel of chlorine in my eyes. This is my first season with SWG, so I don't know if the chlorine feel is the same as a non-SWG pool.

    I got my water tested at the pool store this afternoon (TF-100 ordered, on the way), and here are the results:

    pH: 7.7
    TA: 80
    FC: 0.5
    Salt: 3000
    CH: 100
    CYA: 50
    TC(which I figure is CC):0.5

    Now I read in pool school that my CYA should be between 70 and 80... Would that make a difference? I'm gessing yes, since it protects the chlorine from sunlight and I get a lot of that during the day on the pool...

    I read on the forum that some guys run their pump 4-5 hours a day and that's all they need for chlorine production for 24 hours! I'll never be able to do that it seems!!! It doesn't make much sense to me since the T-15 cell should be good for a 40k gallon pool, and I got a 13500 gallon pool... And this is only May! What happens in the middle of July?! My SWG will never be able to keep up!

    Anyone have a similar scenario willing to share their input? Any insight is much appreciated.
    JF

    13.5k gallons, IG, Vinyl, Hayward C3030 Cartridge, Hayward Tristar 3/4hp single speed, Hayward T-15 SWG, Hayward P4 automation, 234 sqft Solex Solar panels. April 2013 construction, Dolphin DX4 robot, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jets 2.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    Quote Originally Posted by JFB
    Now I read in pool school that my CYA should be between 70 and 80... Would that make a difference?
    Yes, it will protect your FC better from the sun. By letting your FC get so low you are at risk for algae (it is possible you might already have it and that might be adding to your chlorine loss).

    How old is your cell?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    Your CYA is too low so you are losing more FC to the sun and clearly your FC is too low.

    But, before you raise it you should wait for you test kit, turn the SWG off, raise the FC to shock level, and perform the OCLT. Likely you have something in the water that is also consuming all your FC ... which will require following the shock process. Once your kill all that. You can raise the CYA some and likely will be able to dial the SWG and run time down.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    JFB's Avatar
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    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    How old is your cell?
    Brand new. Just got it installed a few weeks ago. Pool is new, everything is new...
    JF

    13.5k gallons, IG, Vinyl, Hayward C3030 Cartridge, Hayward Tristar 3/4hp single speed, Hayward T-15 SWG, Hayward P4 automation, 234 sqft Solex Solar panels. April 2013 construction, Dolphin DX4 robot, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jets 2.

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    JFB's Avatar
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    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    Allright.

    Just came back from the pool store with stabilizer/conditioner. They sold it for 12.99$ for 1.9kg (5 lbs), which I'm sure is pricey, but I wasn't sure where else to get stabilizer.

    I want to make sure I add the right amount. Pool School tells me I want a CYA level of 70. Mine currently sits at 50. the pool calculator tells me I need to add 1021g (36oz) by weight to bring it from 50 to 70. There isn't much on the stabilizer package. The only thing I can see that will help me a little is that it is 98% concentrated, and that it says to add 300g(0.66 lbs) per 10000L(2642 gal) of water... It also says to maintain the stabilizer between 30 and 50.

    The last thing it says is "extremely slippery if spilled". Huh, really? That sounds like a challenge!

    The pool store did a quick calculation (I know, I know...) and they said I needed to add 1 cup (205g, 0.45 lbs) to bring my pool from 50 to 70 CYA. Fishy. That sounds a little off...

    My biggest worry is are there different stabilizers out there? Does the concentration vary and matter? And, of course, how much should I add in my skimmer sock?

    Thanks a lot for the advice!
    JF

    13.5k gallons, IG, Vinyl, Hayward C3030 Cartridge, Hayward Tristar 3/4hp single speed, Hayward T-15 SWG, Hayward P4 automation, 234 sqft Solex Solar panels. April 2013 construction, Dolphin DX4 robot, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jets 2.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    Quote Originally Posted by JFB
    Just came back from the pool store with stabilizer/conditioner. They sold it for 12.99$ for 1.9kg (5 lbs), which I'm sure is pricey, but I wasn't sure where else to get stabilizer.
    You can typically get it at walmart and hardware stores (at least around here). With that said, I think the price you got was decent.

    Before adding the cya, I would consider doing a Overnight Chlorine loss test (OCLT). That will tell you if you have or do not have organics consuming your chlorine since it is easier fighting algae at a lower cya. I would turn off the swg, raise your FC to shock level (16 ppm for your 50 ppm cya level per poolcalculator.com) using bleach/liquid chlorine before doing the test. Here are the instructions: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...rnight_fc_test
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    JFB's Avatar
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    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    That is exactly what I was thinking.

    I shocked lasted week. I did OCLT last night and showed no loss. Should I shock again?
    JF

    13.5k gallons, IG, Vinyl, Hayward C3030 Cartridge, Hayward Tristar 3/4hp single speed, Hayward T-15 SWG, Hayward P4 automation, 234 sqft Solex Solar panels. April 2013 construction, Dolphin DX4 robot, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jets 2.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    Does not sound like you fully grasp the shock process. If your water is clear and you passed the OCLT and you have no CC, then you likely do not need to go through the process again

    Shocking Your Pool
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    JFB's Avatar
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    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    I guess I misunderstood your original post. Re-reading the thread, I realize I should've mentioned that OCLT was completed with no loss.

    But I may be off the mark. All I have to test right now until TF-100 arrives, is the basic Chlorine/Ph kit that you can buy at most pool stores. I know it's grossly inaccurate, but I needed something to tell me if I was setting my SWG correctly. I tested for FC last night when the pump turned off, and then again this AM just as the pump turned on, and it was the same colour (ie same FC level). Am I understanding my rudimentary test correctly?

    From what I gather from pool school, it should mean there is no organic matter in the pool and there is no need to shock.

    Is it from here I can start playing with CYA? If so, back to my original question, how much should I add? This is my first time, and first pool, I'm ignorant and I don't want to mess it up...

    Thanks again.
    JF

    13.5k gallons, IG, Vinyl, Hayward C3030 Cartridge, Hayward Tristar 3/4hp single speed, Hayward T-15 SWG, Hayward P4 automation, 234 sqft Solex Solar panels. April 2013 construction, Dolphin DX4 robot, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jets 2.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    If you just have a basic TC test kit ... then how could you measure the FC at shock level? And how could you tell if the FC dropped less than 1ppm overnight to pass the OCLT? Trying to say the color is the same between 2 tests is not nearly accurate enough ... plus the pump should really be running over night when you do the OCLT.

    Ultimately up to you if you think the pool has nothing in it based on that .......

    If you are concerned with overshooting ... add enough to raise it from 50-60 based on the poolcalculator. Circulate the water a day and re-test the CYA to see if that is what you got
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  11. Back To Top    #11
    JFB's Avatar
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    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    I was using the pool store to test my water during the Shock process. And I use them to measure everything else until I can get the test kit myself. They use the Taylor K2006, so I am moderately confident with their results. Moderately.

    So the same colour for OCLT isn't accurate enough? I was afraid of that, but it's all I had to go by. Pool store isn't open in the hours I need to do the test...

    My main concern is I don't want to get behind in FC until the TF-100 arrives. The water is clear right now, and I just want to keep it like that until I can test properly. I don't really mind if the Chlorine level is a little all over the map, but I just want to make sure I'm not creating an environment for algae to start. I keep reading that once you get behind the algae, it's a long road back to health. I think the pool store results show me that my water is passable for now, but as I said, my FC level drops dramatically during the daytime, and my SWG doesn't seem to be able to keep up. I figured if I increase my CYA, then at least the FC level would stay up during the day and I wouldn't be creating the algae environment I was referring to.

    I hope this is making sense. I hope I'm not thinking about all this incorrectly and ruining my water... I know I'm attacking this a little backwards, but without that TF-100, I don't have much to go by...
    JF

    13.5k gallons, IG, Vinyl, Hayward C3030 Cartridge, Hayward Tristar 3/4hp single speed, Hayward T-15 SWG, Hayward P4 automation, 234 sqft Solex Solar panels. April 2013 construction, Dolphin DX4 robot, TF-100 test kit, Pentair Deck Jets 2.

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    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    Pool store test results must be off. Had the same issue. They told me my CYA was 80 when in fact it was 30-35.... Had a hard time holding my FC at 5...until I brought my CYA up to 60. I've since dropped my SWG percentage to 50 and run it for about 7 hours a day to maintain a FC of 5-6 easy, in sunny south texas no less. Believe what you read here - these guys know what they're talking about and the test kit is SOLID...reliable, reproducible, accurate. Don't bother taking your water to the pool store. It's also likely that your salt level is below what your test results show which can make maintaining an adequate FC level more difficult. Took me awhile but I am now a believer in these methods. To solidify that, I once took 3 separate samples to 3 different pool stores and the tests were all different....vastly different. Like pH range from 8.4(put in a ton of acid) to 7.3...perfect....on and on.

    To answer your question, I put an entire bottle of water conditioner (liquid CYA) in my 15000 gallon pool over the course of 4 days to bring my CYA from 30ish to 55-60ish. The pool guy thought I was crazy when I bought conditioner after he told me my CYA was 90....grain of salt.
    15 K gal/gunnite, 600 gal attached SPA, Hayward: ProLogic, ColorLogic LED, Super II pumps, 400k BTU heater, StarClear cartridge filter for, SwimClear cartridge filter . Pentaire: booster

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/detai...l?hilit=corpus

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    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    One thing I notice is statements of "can't increase FC" or "losing FC" but I see numbers like 0.5 and 1 ppm.

    I don't think the SWG should be used to try to raise the FC by very much. The SWG system is for maintaining FC, which if it is always sitting at 0.5 to 1 ppm, then that is what it is doing, maintaining. If you want to increase the FC level, it would be easier to do that with some bleach. You could add even just a half quart or quart of bleach to satisfy your worry a bit until your test kit comes and you can accurately test instead of relying on the pool store or a lesser test kit.

    Remember, pool store chemicals, bleach, or salt water generator, it is all the same sanitizer, chlorine. You just generate the chlorine from the salt with the SWG rather than add with dumping bleach. It just generates slowly to maintain rather than try to increase.
    Mike

    22' round Intex UltraFrame pool, Intex 633T 2500gph paper cartridge filter/pump
    with broken Intex SWG, using bleach this year
    TF-100 test kit

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Am I using it correctly?

    Certainly not good for shocking but a SWG should easily be able to reach and maintain free chlorine levels well above 1 without the addition of bleach, especially with adequate CYA. Agree bleach is quicker...
    15 K gal/gunnite, 600 gal attached SPA, Hayward: ProLogic, ColorLogic LED, Super II pumps, 400k BTU heater, StarClear cartridge filter for, SwimClear cartridge filter . Pentaire: booster

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/detai...l?hilit=corpus

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