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Thread: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

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    Lrooth's Avatar
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    Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Hi everyone... I have several questions, which may be related.

    Opened my pool to see so much algae, the water was black. This is my first opening using my 2006k testing kit, pool calculator and liquid bleach as my shocking agent.... Incredible! Good news. It working at a fraction of the cost!

    ISSUE #1
    Today was day 3, and after continuosly keeping the chlorine levels around 8-9, brushing twice a day, my pool is a light turquoise, but still VERY cloudy. I purchased a Jandy CL350 at the end of last season, replacing my 15 year old DE filter, which would no longer seal properly. With my DE, I would be back washing every other day. EASY! However, The cartridge, which I was told would be easier than a DE, needs to be disassembled to clean. Question: is my water still cloudy because I need to take apart the unit and clean the cartridges? After just three days? The dial says it is still clean.... OR, am i not being patient enough?

    FC 9
    CC .4
    PH 8.0
    CYA 40
    TA 130
    CH 135 (adding increaser slowly to 300?)

    ISSUE #2
    Had the new filter a week last August when a major pool leak reared its ugly self. The Cartridge filter filled with air from the leak, making the unit not as efficient, I am assuming. To get through this year's start up, i have been using the pressure release valve to periodically release the air and get the filter to fill up with water.

    I had a leak detection company locate the leak, but since April 1, i have not been successful getting a contractor to fix it, so I opened the pool anyway. Question: the pool was constructed with the pipes embedded inside the walls of the concrete. They exit at one corner of the pool. The leak detection company said a contractor could dig up the corner and repair. Has anyone used the "sleeve" leak solution, where they put a flexible tube inside the copper pipes, instead of breaking through the concrete? I have been quoted $5,800 for the Sleeve insert solution, $2,800 for a bust through the concrete solution and $4,000 to tunnel under the deck. What would you do?
    Lucy
    40K gal, painted plaster, Pentair FNS Plus 48, Hayward Super Pump 2 HP, Hayward H-Series-250, 50 years old, 3-month swimming season

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    You are not maintaining a high enough FC level as required for the shock process. According to Pool School it should be 16ppm.

    What is the clean pressure on the filter? What is the current pressure? Cartridge filters are a pain when it comes to clearing a pool as you have to open them up and clean them when the pressure rises 20-25% over the clean pressure.

    I am no help on Issue #2
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Lrooth's Avatar
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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Thanks for your reply. My clean pressure is 25. My dirty pressure is 35. It's close to the 25 now.

    I am so glad you commented on the pain of opening up a cartridge filter. Back washing is much easier.
    Lucy
    40K gal, painted plaster, Pentair FNS Plus 48, Hayward Super Pump 2 HP, Hayward H-Series-250, 50 years old, 3-month swimming season

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    This will teach you to let the pool get algae

    If the clean pressure is 25psi, then you should be cleaning it at 31 psi.

    You are also going to suffer since your new filter is WAY too small for your pool. Our general recommendations would be:
    560 sqft cartridge; 7 sqft sand (36" diameter); 106 sqft DE
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Lrooth's Avatar
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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Once again, you validate my gut reaction. I Asked the "professionals" over and over if they were sizing too small. They assured me repeatedly that they use this filter size on all their 35,000 gal pools... Going up a size would be a waste of money they said. Oh, to spend that much money and have it not working like a dream machine is a huge disappointment. They blamed it on the leak. I love this pool and know that equipped properly, it would be a pleasure to maintain. Once the leak is fixed, and it stil works poorly, I will ask them to replace it, probably a waste of tme, but I'll feel better. Need to purchase a new heAter.... Any suggestions?

    Oh... Will raise the chlorine higher tomorrow. Thanks.
    Lucy
    40K gal, painted plaster, Pentair FNS Plus 48, Hayward Super Pump 2 HP, Hayward H-Series-250, 50 years old, 3-month swimming season

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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Day 7, shock levels kept betwween 8-16, water light turquoise, but still cloudy. I can see bottom of shallow and all steps. I can see where I missed brushing. Deep end has no visibility of bottom. Dirt on bottom in shallow is brown. Stirs up easily. Started my automatic in pool cleaner. It kicking up all the brown dust.

    Can I use a manual cleaner suction from the skimmer with a cartridge filter to vacuum like I did with my DE?

    Went back to the pool store where I got my filter, told them about cloudiness and a concern that they miss-sized my filter. They said I have a great filter, it must be phosphates. I am bringing back a water sample for them to test for phosphates.

    Do you see phosphates as a problem for cloudiness? I also added FLOc this morning, because I can see particles suspended in water.

    FC. 12
    Cc. .2
    PH. 8
    cyA. 40
    CH. 190
    TA. 130
    Lucy
    40K gal, painted plaster, Pentair FNS Plus 48, Hayward Super Pump 2 HP, Hayward H-Series-250, 50 years old, 3-month swimming season

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Phosphates don't matter in a properly chlorinated pool, it is just a test they use to sell you expensive phosphate remover. Phosphates are algae food, if there is no live algae due to proper clorination then phosphate levels don't matter.

    Ike

    p.s. with improper chlorination, extremely high CYA levels, etc. then removing phosphates from the water can help, but this is sort of a $50 temporary band aid for a $5 fix (use the right amount of chlorine and don't let CYA get out of control)
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Thanks for feedback. The PS said my phosphates were 400. their tests show that my numbers changed from last nights readings.... See above. My CyA dropped to 21, my ph dropped to 6.9 and my alkalinity dropped to 92. For these reasons my water is still cloudy, not because of the inefficiency of the filter. Your thoughts?

    I am out of drops for testing CYA. I came home and did my own testing on ph and alkalinity..... Ph..7.4 and alkalinity...100.

    I will keep adding jugs of Chlorine in to keep my shock levels up, but should I also add stabilizer? Maybe that's why I cant keep the chlorine high day after day??? This is day 8 of keeping Chlorine shock levels.
    Lucy
    40K gal, painted plaster, Pentair FNS Plus 48, Hayward Super Pump 2 HP, Hayward H-Series-250, 50 years old, 3-month swimming season

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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Also, PS told me to clean cartridges.... Didn't matter what the gage says. The gage is still at 27 with a start clean at 25. I'm taking apart the filter now. PIA... Cartridges are NOT easier! On my D.E. I just turned the dial to backwash. I have had my pool for 20 years and have never been so frustrated!
    Lucy
    40K gal, painted plaster, Pentair FNS Plus 48, Hayward Super Pump 2 HP, Hayward H-Series-250, 50 years old, 3-month swimming season

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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Keep following the shock process. You tested your CYA at 40? Thrust that ... ignore the pool store test. What are you CC levels? Are you getting a large FC drop overnight? There could still be things living if you are not maintaining shock level.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Finally, I can see the bottom! Clear in the shallow. Still cloudy in 10 ft deep, but i can see the shadow of dirt outlined. Need to vacuum. Manual Vacuum head broke, need to buy new one this morning? My leak is getting worse, dropped over an inch overnight! My choline went from 13 yesterday afternoon to 5 this morning. I have added 60 lbs of calcium hardness increaser over this past week. I am out of Reagent for CYA. Couldn't test. I think the chemistry looks ok. right?

    Vacuum, continue chlorine .... Try and find someone to answer my need for leak repair...hasn't been easy.

    Thanks for getting me through cloudy water.... Still believe filter is working overtime and that's why it took so long.

    FC. 5
    Cc. .1
    PH. 7.2
    TA. 130
    CH. 300
    Lucy
    40K gal, painted plaster, Pentair FNS Plus 48, Hayward Super Pump 2 HP, Hayward H-Series-250, 50 years old, 3-month swimming season

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Your filter is too small and that's why it took so long to clear it up, once you were shocking at proper level. You need to order some reagent or get it from Leslie's if you have one by you.
    Yes cartridges are more of a pain than DE. I'm sorry they talked you into it. (just a sidenote, year 13 with a cart- I would get DE if it breaks...but anyway my psi doesn't change at all when dirty. The heater stops heating and return flow is decreased. Yes the gauge works. Just doesn't detect when this cart is dirty, never has.)
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Cant tell you how upset being sold the wrong size filter makes me. The PS hasn't heard the last from me. 10-15 years of struggling doesnt make sense. The "professionals" ... Can be such a disappointment.

    Vacuumed up all the dirt on bottom... Of course the pool is all cloudy again. Brought shock levels back to 12 and added some CYA increaser. i need to get the plumbing fixed!
    Lucy
    40K gal, painted plaster, Pentair FNS Plus 48, Hayward Super Pump 2 HP, Hayward H-Series-250, 50 years old, 3-month swimming season

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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridges not cleaning - sludge!

    Pool is getting clear. But my pressure indicated I need to clean cartridges. There was lots of dead anlae when I vacuumed. I just took it apart to clean and the cartridges have a sludge that isn't hosing off!

    Could this be from the Floc I used to get the particles to sink to the bottom? If so, what will break down the sludge? Can I use detergent or do I need to go to the pool store to buy cartridge cleaner?
    Lucy
    40K gal, painted plaster, Pentair FNS Plus 48, Hayward Super Pump 2 HP, Hayward H-Series-250, 50 years old, 3-month swimming season

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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    You can soak it overnight - Use the instructions here:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/how-t...ter-t4465.html
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Yes, thank you! Incredible information. Using TSP now?
    Lucy
    40K gal, painted plaster, Pentair FNS Plus 48, Hayward Super Pump 2 HP, Hayward H-Series-250, 50 years old, 3-month swimming season

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Some floc specifically states that you have to vacuum to waste ... or you end up with a mess. This is another reason we rarely ever recommend using it.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Lrooth's Avatar
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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    The pool store (professionals) sold it to me knowing that I was very unhappy with the filters performance. They never mentioned a problem with vacuuming through the cartridge filter. With a cartridge filter there is no such thing as dialing to waste! No one who has anything but a small above ground pool should get a Cartridge filter! Do I have any rights to ask for a replacement for this piece of insufficient plastic and metal! Even it's location, tucked back in the corner of the pool shed makes taking it a part very cumbersome. The pieces are heavy for a 61 year old female (with two back surgeries) to take apart and put back together. They just kept telling how wonderful a cartridge filter would be! Did the think it through? I believed them! $2,300 later, I'm stuck?

    The FLOc I purchased did not mention vacuuming to waste.
    Lucy
    40K gal, painted plaster, Pentair FNS Plus 48, Hayward Super Pump 2 HP, Hayward H-Series-250, 50 years old, 3-month swimming season

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    There are many members here that love their cartridge filters ... especially for those with SWG or expensive water as your do not need to backwash. BUT, they have properly sized (or over-sized) filters and if the chlorine is maintained and no algae starts, they only need to clean them once a year.

    Once algae takes root ... cartridge filters are the worst to deal with it.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Lrooth's Avatar
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    Re: Missing my DE Filter -Cartridge not cleaning - pool leak

    Yes, start ups for me are tough... I live in PA and have a mesh pool cover! In eighteen years, whether I do the closings or professionals do closing, my pool is green. Last year I followed this sites closing recommendations. My pool was still green. My cover is spring attached to the deck. Hard to disperse chlorine throughout the winter.

    Any suggestions are appreciated. For instance, Start up the pool in March, knowing it will not be used until the end of May?

    From your comments, i can see where year round systems are better suited to cartridge.
    Lucy
    40K gal, painted plaster, Pentair FNS Plus 48, Hayward Super Pump 2 HP, Hayward H-Series-250, 50 years old, 3-month swimming season

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