New filter - same bubbles in return, loud gargling

[ian81]

So just installed a new Hayward EC-65 DE Filter. It's the same model I had in there.
Towards the end of the year, the old filter was getting really loud, making a gurgling noise like there was always bubbles sloshing around in there, and there was bubbles coming out of 2 out of the 3 jets.
I've heard its a leak on the suction side but I am getting mentally fried as my brother and I spent literally all day replumbing from the filter to the pump, due to replacing the base of the filter.
Well, with the new filter, it's the exact same issue.. loud gurgling and bubbles in the returns.
After the water passes through filter it goes through a nat 2 system. (which I hope to remove at some point), and I do not have a cartridge in there right now.

Below is a video w/ sound of the pump house & my jets, hope you can see the bubbles.
Anyone know what is wrong? Should I be doing something to my filter prior? (I've tried venting the air through the vent screw but just water comes out)

I should also note that last year when I would hook up the vacuum (filling it with water from a return and putting hose in skimmer line), sometimes the pump would lose its prime and fill back up with water.
The pressure has risen a little bit since it's picking up some dirt I assume/hope!
Any advice would be great![youtube:1dmrh7hr]LhAXjp65N78[/youtube:1dmrh7hr]

 

[duraleigh]

I've heard its a leak on the suction side

No other choice, really. air cannot enter a pressurized pipe or fixture but is naturally drawn into any bad seals or cracks on the suction side.

Simple idea but the leak is often very difficult to find.

 

[ian81]

Well I don't see any bubbles in my pump, so could it be the plumbing from the pump to the filter? Quite possibly the adapter going into the pump isn't all the way tight? (involves another re plumb) Or does the 'suction side' end at the pump? If it ends at the pump, is my leak underground? And what does the pump losing prime when i hook the vacuum hose up to skimmer mean?
Sorry to bombard with so many questions and thanks for your quick reply

If someone could confirm where the suction side stops? Maybe the air is getting through where the nat cartridge is? I believe there is a small drip there that keeps the ground damp, or there was last year.

And because I know you all like numbers

FC 8
CC .5 ??
TC 8.5
PH 7.5
TA 130
CYA 60
CH 250

 

[Richard320]

Well I don't see any bubbles in my pump, so could it be the plumbing from the pump to the filter? Quite possibly the adapter going into the pump isn't all the way tight? (involves another re plumb) Or does the 'suction side' end at the pump? If it ends at the pump, is my leak underground? And what does the pump losing prime when i hook the vacuum hose up to skimmer mean?
Sorry to bombard with so many questions and thanks for your quick reply

No. After the pump the water is under pressure - you'd see water squirting out, not air leaking in. The leak is somewhere between the pool and the pump impeller. The pump is where it transitions from suction to pressure.

[center:4us81zmw]Round up the usual suspects: low water level, stuck weir in the skimmer, loose drain plugs on the
pump, poor seal on the pump strainer basket, and leaks at the fittings, especially any couplings.
[youtube:4us81zmw]vtSmfws0_To[/youtube:4us81zmw][/center:4us81zmw]

 

[duraleigh]

Well I don't see any bubbles in my pump, so could it be the plumbing from the pump to the filter? Quite possibly the adapter going into the pump isn't all the way tight? (involves another re plumb) Or does the 'suction side' end at the pump? If it ends at the pump, is my leak underground? And what does the pump losing prime when i hook the vacuum hose up to skimmer mean?
Sorry to bombard with so many questions and thanks for your quick reply

Yeah the suction side ends at the pump's impeller. While your leak could be in an underground pipe, it almost never is.

The vacuum hose probably has a sizable hole the allows a lot of air to rush in and you then lose prime.

Tomorrow, start at the skimmer and make sure the water level is high enough that no air is being "vortexed" in and make sure the skimmer baskets are not clogged. Then start working your way towards the pump. It's somewhere along that path.

...the most common place is the pump basket 0-ring. Have you checked the pump basket drain plugs?

 

[ian81]

Well I don't see any bubbles in my pump, so could it be the plumbing from the pump to the filter? Quite possibly the adapter going into the pump isn't all the way tight? (involves another re plumb) Or does the 'suction side' end at the pump? If it ends at the pump, is my leak underground? And what does the pump losing prime when i hook the vacuum hose up to skimmer mean?
Sorry to bombard with so many questions and thanks for your quick reply

Yeah the suction side ends at the pump's impeller. While your leak could be in an underground pipe, it almost never is.

The vacuum hose probably has a sizable hole the allows a lot of air to rush in and you then lose prime.

Tomorrow, start at the skimmer and make sure the water level is high enough that no air is being "vortexed" in and make sure the skimmer baskets are not clogged. Then start working your way towards the pump. It's somewhere along that path.

...the most common place is the pump basket 0-ring. Have you checked the pump basket drain plugs?

Yep my pump has 2 plugs, both which I undid and redid today while re plumbing.. sorry if I am asking easy questions it is nearing bed time ,
Water level is high, however, the styrofoam that was in my wier has been lost (took it out, lost it) so it is not flapping back and forth as it should (or so I think that's why it's not flapping)
Most threads that I read that were suction line leaks were causing bubbles in the pump?
In the video, and on my introduction thread I posted last year, you can see there is not much pipe coming from concrete going into pump

 

[ian81]

Round up the usual suspects: low water level, stuck weir in the skimmer, loose drain plugs on the
pump, poor seal on the pump strainer basket, and leaks at the fittings, especially any couplings.
​

​

Wait.. O ring on pump basket? not the O ring on the pump itself? (plastic cover)​

 

[Richard320]

Round up the usual suspects: low water level, stuck weir in the skimmer, loose drain plugs on the
pump, poor seal on the pump strainer basket, and leaks at the fittings, especially any couplings.
​

​

Wait.. O ring on pump basket? not the O ring on the pump itself? (plastic cover)​

Under the clear cover, the one you open to dump out leaves and stuff. That's the most common. Any grit, grass, hairline cracks in the rubber O-ring, they can do it.​

 

[duraleigh]

Most threads that I read that were suction line leaks were causing bubbles in the pump?

Yes, most do but some you cannot see. Remember, there really is no other choice.......it's on the suction side. The VERY last thing to do is dig up the pipes but that cause is quite a bit less than 1% I would guess.

just saw your post...the pump basket is at the front of the pump.

 

[ian81]

Yeah I was thinking maybe there was another O ring inside like to make the pump basket fit better that I was missing.. It's a good possibility there is dirt and stuff in the covers grooves, I will have to see if I can purchase a new O ring for the pump.. o ring all gunked up with magic lube so won't be the best thing to try to clean lol
Thanks for the help I will have to give this a try

 

[ian81]

Just thought I'd quick throw this in,
I've now brushed stuff from my edges and hill down to the deep end, and After a couple hours the pressure rose on the filter enough to be bumped.
Now i go turn the light on, and it's like I didn't even brush.
Is the DE now not on the fingers in the filter due to the air?
Man, sure is a lot of gargling going on in there, seems way to much to be an pump basket O ring. I think I will turn pump off while I sleep, can't have that pressure rising again..
I put 6 scoops of DE in (at initial startup) - not huge heaping scoops, better to slightly underfill then to overfill I figured, but I'm sure theres enough in there - unless its coming back out the returns

 

[ian81]

Took pump basket O ring out, it looked brand new.
Cleaned it all up, re lubed it, took out pump drain plugs - both O rings cracked on those. Lubed, Teflon'd, Replaced.
Still no good. same gurgling, same bubbles.
My brother tried to vaccuum and said he kept losing prime, but today I find 5 walnuts in the pump basket? From him vacuuming Argh, not even sure what to do next.
I will check the union on the suction side next, when I get home from work

 

[ian81]

Problem solved! Apparently there was a recall on my pump a few years back, there was a paper gasket that had eroded to pretty much nothing!! Once i replaced that the bubbles totally disappeared and the pumphouse sounds normal! Woohoo!