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Thread: These numbers can't be right?

  1. Back To Top    #1
    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    These numbers can't be right?

    Hi All,
    I am new to the forum as of yesterday, obviously looking for solutions to my problem. My water was green upon opening it last friday, it had lots of slime on the walls and bottom as far as i could tell. I added algecide and shock after I brought the pH up, the CYA was low, but I had my inline chlorinator on full and added my shock dose as I always do. I let the filter run over night and the water became more blue than green. The DE filter(36sqft) pressure was up so I removed the grid and washed it.
    Continued to run the filter over night, by the next morning I could just about see the drain in the deep end (5.5ft). I vacuumed all the slime and dirt from the bottom and walls. This clogged the filter again so it was washed again. After the vacuuming it made the water milky. My FC dropped to 0 my CYA at 0 and loosing ph. I dosed for ph added 1.5 lbs shock that did nothing. Thats when I came here and read similar post to my problem. Soooo, Last night I got my ph in line 7.2,
    I had some stabilizer and made a sock out of drain pipe sieve sock and wire ties and dropped it in to the skimmer to dislove.
    I have put 3 of the 4 pounds into the water at this point, the CYA was just hitting the 30-50 range( I'm using AquaCheck strips) so I then dumped 12.8 gallons of Clorox in. After a hour I had about 0.5 FC, I had about 4 lbs of granular shock and threw that in too, I made a great foam but no more FC.
    I just tested the water at noon:
    FC 0.5
    CC
    TC 5
    ph 6.2
    T/A 240
    CYA 0 (again)
    I added some more Ph+ and 3 tablets to the clorinator (empty)

    Questions: If I made no gains with the 12 gallons of bleach already do I have to start over meaning 12+?
    why can't I keep my CYA up, the bottle reads 4lb.s should raise 20K gal to 20ppm Should't I have ample CYA?
    I'm pretty sure that the T/A at 240 is a function of trying to keep the pH up?
    This is my 6th season, I have had one battle with a brown opening but mostly clear openings. Nothing like this
    These doseage numbers are amazing, Am I on the right track?

    John
    12.5K gal IG 14x28 36sqftDE auto/chlor
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

  2. Back To Top    #2
    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help

    Thanks for the help
    Used the calculator for some numbers I will give that a try
    98 lbs of Borax? really?
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
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  3. Back To Top    #3
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    No, 98 lbs of borax would not be appropriate. I am not sure where you got that number.

    When you add CYA it can take up to a week to fully dissolve and show up in the test. Also, CYA tends to get into the filter, and if you backwash/clean the filter any CYA that is in there will be lost. The trichlor tablets in the chlorinator will be adding CYA slowly, but it will be weeks before the level gets significant from that source.

    If your CYA level is very low you will lose nearly all of your FC each sunny day.

    To beat algae you need to hit it hard and fast. That means frequent testing of the FC level and adding more chlorine to bring the FC level back up to shock level. With CYA measuring zero shock level would be 10. Because the CYA level is also low you pretty much need to do this in the evening after the sun is off the pool.

    There is a detailed discussion of fighting algae here.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    ivyleager's Avatar
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    Re: These numbers can't be right?

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeywrench
    Hi All,
    I am new to the forum as of yesterday, obviously looking for solutions to my problem. My water was green upon opening it last friday, it had lots of slime on the walls and bottom as far as i could tell. I added algecide and shock after I brought the pH up, the CYA was low, but I had my inline chlorinator on full and added my shock dose as I always do. I let the filter run over night and the water became more blue than green. The DE filter(36sqft) pressure was up so I removed the grid and washed it.
    Continued to run the filter over night, by the next morning I could just about see the drain in the deep end (5.5ft). I vacuumed all the slime and dirt from the bottom and walls. This clogged the filter again so it was washed again. After the vacuuming it made the water milky. My FC dropped to 0 my CYA at 0 and loosing ph. I dosed for ph added 1.5 lbs shock that did nothing. Thats when I came here and read similar post to my problem. Soooo, Last night I got my ph in line 7.2,
    I had some stabilizer and made a sock out of drain pipe sieve sock and wire ties and dropped it in to the skimmer to dislove.
    I have put 3 of the 4 pounds into the water at this point, the CYA was just hitting the 30-50 range( I'm using AquaCheck strips) so I then dumped 12.8 gallons of Clorox in. After a hour I had about 0.5 FC, I had about 4 lbs of granular shock and threw that in too, I made a great foam but no more FC.
    I just tested the water at noon:
    FC 0.5
    CC
    TC 5
    ph 6.2
    T/A 240
    CYA 0 (again)
    I added some more Ph+ and 3 tablets to the clorinator (empty)

    Questions: If I made no gains with the 12 gallons of bleach already do I have to start over meaning 12+?
    why can't I keep my CYA up, the bottle reads 4lb.s should raise 20K gal to 20ppm Should't I have ample CYA?
    I'm pretty sure that the T/A at 240 is a function of trying to keep the pH up?
    This is my 6th season, I have had one battle with a brown opening but mostly clear openings. Nothing like this
    These doseage numbers are amazing, Am I on the right track?

    John
    12.5K gal IG 14x28 36sqftDE auto/chlor
    Johm,

    Wow! Keep an eye on that ph! Also, CYA takes time to dissolve and register a reading.

    Yes, you need to keep the FC up. And keep it up, and keep it up. Take readings 2-3x day and keep FC level up. Make sure filter is running 24/7. I'd quit adding granular stuff and pucks for not. Just stick with the bleach and pH plus.

    Keep It Simple!
    CaryB
    36 x 18 IG vinyl, 25K, 1 HP pump, sand filter
    1 skimmer, 2 returns, no main drain
    Old school: PoolSolutions test kit

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Hey monkeywrench and welcome!

    That sounds like a clever sock you made for your CYA ! 8)

    What test kit are you using?

    If you have not already found it, reading in the "Stickies" section is VERY helpful. It is located in the sub-heading of each page and I have a link in my sig.

    I suggest that you read; "ABC's of pool water chemistry" by duraleigh,

    " BBB" or "What are all these chemicals?" by Waterbear,

    and "Turning your green swamp into a sparkling oasis" by JasonLion.

    Please post all your pool and equipment info in your signature.

    Keep us posted with your progress
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

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  6. Back To Top    #6
    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    [Edited to add line breaks. JasonLion]

    Thanks,
    that 98lbs of borax was a typo in the calculator.
    As far as the tablets and granular stuff, I had it on hand and when all the bleach was gone (the stores were closed) I threw it in hoping it would get over the top and into some reading for a while. Now ALL my supplies are gone and I have to start over.
    Right now I have 8lbs of pH+ thats it.

    The calculator states I need 3+ gallons of bleach, Jasons article states 4x, so should I have 12 or more on hand, start with 4 and add or dump in the 12.?

    The 4 lbs of CYA in the sock has disolved, should I not expect to see a reading for another couple of days or more?

    Should I wait to get a CYA reading before I do anything at all other than pH work?

    Should I get another sock full going? The calculator called for 5.5 lbs,I have 4lbs in now. (i have no more should I use liquid or keep with the granular)

    How long should I wait to take a sample after adding any chemical? 30min/ hour/more?

    The pump has been on 24/7 since the last filter clean, very little rise in pressure so I most likely won't have to worry about back wash for a while

    It is difficult to keep solids out of the water, the trees here are still shedding, pollen, 3 chipmunks and 2 frogs in the skimmer so far.

    John
    14x28 12.5Kgal IG Vinyl ,DE, Gas Heat (not inst.yet)
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
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    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

  7. Back To Top    #7
    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Oh I ordered the TF100 kit yesterday, I'm currently using Leslies Aquacheck select

    John
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

  8. Back To Top    #8
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Don't add more than 3 gallons of bleach at once. After that you only want to add enough to bring the FC level back up to shock level. It might be simpler if you wait for your test kit to arrive. Without accurate testing you need to guess at when to add more bleach based on the color of the water.

    Let the CYA dissolve for a full week and then test again to see what level you got to before adding any more. I would stick with granular CYA, it is much less expensive.

    Wait an hour after adding a chemical before testing again for liquids, four hours for most powders, and a week for CYA.

    Go ahead and adjust the PH so that it is between 7.2 and 7.4 right now.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  9. Back To Top    #9
    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    I'm just curious, if 3 gallons should bring me to shock level,
    How come the 12 I put in the first time did not even register?

    J-
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
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    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
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  10. Back To Top    #10
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    When you first start fighting algae the chlorine gets consumed very quickly. By the time you can do the test the chlorine will be gone. You don't want the FC level going too high. To avoid that risk it is much better to add chlorine to shock level, wait half an hour or an hour and then raise it back up to shock level. If you added the chlorine all at once it would kill the algae, but the really high levels that would exist for a short while could also damage your pool.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  11. Back To Top    #11
    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Good Morning,
    Finally!!
    Last evening my CYA finnally registered at nearly 100. What I did was every once and a while since tuesday I would give the CYA sock I made in the skimmer a squeze and send a cloud burst in to the system to get the disolved stuff moving, maybe this is why I was able to get results earlier than a week.
    Now I was confident that I would not waste my chlorine I wated until sundown and added the amount that the calculator recomended and BAM! shock level.
    It also maintained level through out the night. I just gave it a little boost this morning at 5am.
    How long should I keep it at shock level (10+)
    Now there's just some cloudyness to deal with.

    Thanks for everyones input. The advice was worth the donation,most likely much cheaper than the advice ( read chemicals)
    that the pool store would have given.

    John
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

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    Hi, John,

    I'm late to the dance on this thread but, YIKES!! CYA of 100 is not a good thing. Didn't I read you put in 4 lbs? What are you testing with? Something is out of whack.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13
    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Aquacheck Test strips right now, my TF-100 kit should be here today
    I say near 100 beacuse the color patch is in the 30-50 range but the color on the very finge of the patch is in the 100 range
    but 95% of the patch is 30-50 range.

    John
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
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  14. Back To Top    #14

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    I understand. I think you'll find the CYA to be pretty close to your calculated dosage when you test with the TF-100.

    "How long should I keep it at shock level (10+)
    Now there's just some cloudyness to deal with."

    The answer that I like (kudos to chem geek) is:

    Hold your FC at shock level until:

    1. Your water is sparkling
    2. CC's test .5ppm or less
    3. You pool will hold FC overnite not losing more than 1.0ppm

    Then just let your FC drift down into maintenance range and keep it there.........you'll have a beautiful pool all summer.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  15. Back To Top    #15
    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Re: These numbers can't be right?

    I have been away from the forum for a bit trying to finish installing a paver boarder around the deck,but I just wanted to check back in and let you all know that thanks to all of your great advice and patience the water is now gorgeous.
    Most of all I love using the TF-100 kit, it's actully great fun, and the BBB method is equally fantastic.
    I just wanted to give credit where due.
    And the biggest lesson learned was patience over panic.

    Thanks one and all.
    John

    PS I've been recomending this site to everyone I know with a pool and/or spa.
    14x28 IG Vinyl
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  16. Back To Top    #16
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: These numbers can't be right?

    Congrats!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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  17. Back To Top    #17
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    Re: These numbers can't be right?

    Congrats on getting your water sparkling!

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeywrench
    And the biggest lesson learned was patience over panic.
    That's a great lesson! You learned it a lot quicker than I did!

    Maybe that's why we 'sell' so many big bottles of "POP" (pool owner patience)!
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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