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Thread: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

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    Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    Hi All. I just had my pool built in June 2012. It is a 24k gal, plaster pool with DE filter, Fusion Nature2 chlorinator and Jandy 1.5HP single speed pump. Maintained it all last year based on Leslie's Pool advice prior to me finding this website. I still have 50lbs of Chlorine pucks and a 5gal tub of their shock to finish up before I go with BBB method. I did purchase the T100 test kit as advised by this forum.

    So I removed the cover today to a somewhat cloudy pool. Had a Melin Smart mesh safety cover. I would not call it green as I could see the bottom of the pool but it had lots of pine needles and some leaves and dirt in it. I got the pump and filter running. I put in the DE and then I tested the water:

    pH: above 8.2 (told it was high because it is a new plaster pool and will be high for a couple of years)
    FC: didn't bother testing
    Alkalinity: 90
    CH: 260
    CYA: 73? need to retest tomorrow seems to have jumped pretty high from last year
    Temp: 62 degrees

    Questions:
    1. Should I vaccuum the pool before I start to shock it?
    2. Can I use the Power Powder Plus from Leslies to shock? Don't want to waste it.
    3. Do I need to get the PH down before I shock?

    Now for the other problem. Looks like when I had the safety cover installed, one of the anchors punctured my return pipe. So I have the the shallow end returns shut off. Will this be a problem? I have the deep end return and I turned on the cleaner pipe to circulate the water better. Other than this, my questions is who should be responsible for fixing my problem, the safety cover guy or the pool builder. I called the safety cover guy and he told me that he used 15" anchors which means that the pool builder had the pipes to hi. he is saying it is the pool builders fault and i should go after them. Has any one had this problem?

    Thanks in advance...
    JonnyBonz
    24,000 gal, 17x39 freeform, Plaster, Zodiac DE filter, 1.5hp Jandy HP Plus pump, Fusion Nature 2. Installed June 2012.

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    Killer95Stang's Avatar
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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    Their is no code regulation on how deep your pool water pipes should be. Obviously the deeper they are, the safer they are. As an example, sprinkler piping is usually only 8" deep.

    Your PB has no liability here... What if the cover installer used 20" anchors? If the installer is licensed And bonded, then he should call his insurance company.
    Pool done!! (backyard = work in progress) 32' x 19' inground freeform with 7' spa, baja step w/ (2) bubblers, stonescapes mini pebble finish, rock waterfall feature, 12" raised bond beam, Intelliflo VS, Whisperflo feature pump, (3) 5G Color LED's, FNS + DE 60, 400K Master Temp, Easytouch 8 w/ remote, Intellichlor IC40, Vision Classic Ceramic Kamado smoker, Margaritaville DM1000!!! Party Coming Soon!!
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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    Power powder plus is Cal-Hypo, so using it will increase your CH. The recommended range for CH is 250-350, so I would avoid using the shock. Also, your CYA is already high, so I would stop using the tablets. Since your pool is cloudy, you will need to follow the shock process (link in my signature). At this point, you have 2 options:
    1) Drain about 30% of your water to get your CYA to a more manageable level of 50 and shock to 16, or
    2) Keep the CYA at 70 and shock to 20.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
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    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    I agree with John. Stop using the Leslie's stuff now. Don't get rid of it though. The powdered chlorine products last for a long time, and once you understand how they affect your pool, there's nothing wrong with using them when you're on vacation. I just wouldn't use it "just to use it up."
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    All, thanks for your replies.

    Just an update on what i have found out in the last couple of days.

    1. The return to the shallow end is definitely punctured. I have turned off the return to the shallow end and plugged the returns in the pool.
    2. I am still losing about 1-2 inches of water per day. I'm assuming that there are more punctures in other pipes under the pavers so I'm not seeing the water leakage. I'll try and plug each one to try and figure out which pipe is punctured.
    3. Have been refilling water so CYA is down to 48 as of now.
    4. I'm going full speed with BBB. Have purchased 7 cases of Clorox, Muriatic Acid and Baking soda.

    pH: 7.8
    FC: 0 (Will start shocking tonight)
    Alkalinity: 90
    CH: 220
    CYA: 48
    Temp: 62 degrees

    So now my real problem is how do I deal with the pool cover installer who thinks he is not liable for any of the damage? Should i expect him to pull up the pavers and uncover all of the plumbing? That would mean losing some of the season i would think. He is also a pool builder so although I think he can do the work, I would not be comfortable with him doing the repair work, especially if he is not willing to take responsibility. Do I need to get in touch with a lawyer to move this forward? What an unpleasant initial experience to being a pool owner...
    JonnyBonz
    24,000 gal, 17x39 freeform, Plaster, Zodiac DE filter, 1.5hp Jandy HP Plus pump, Fusion Nature 2. Installed June 2012.

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    Killer95Stang's Avatar
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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    I would get an honest quote from your pool builder and maybe another independent pool repair service quote. If both quotes fall into the level of small claims court, then I would start researching on how to get the ball rolling. If it is more expensive than acceptable at small claims, then I would get a lawyer. Is the cover installer licensed / bonded? Did he give you a contract? What did the fine print say? I doubt it says he's not responsible for damaging an otherwise good pool. Also, find out from your PB how deep the pipes really are. I would consider it unreasonable for the pipes to be at 6 inches depth, but not out of the ordinary if they are deeper than 15 inches.... Pavers are easy... so a motivated crew could get it done in a weekend...
    Pool done!! (backyard = work in progress) 32' x 19' inground freeform with 7' spa, baja step w/ (2) bubblers, stonescapes mini pebble finish, rock waterfall feature, 12" raised bond beam, Intelliflo VS, Whisperflo feature pump, (3) 5G Color LED's, FNS + DE 60, 400K Master Temp, Easytouch 8 w/ remote, Intellichlor IC40, Vision Classic Ceramic Kamado smoker, Margaritaville DM1000!!! Party Coming Soon!!
    TF-100 Test Kit w/ Speedstir

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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    Regarding the pH, lower to 7.2-7.4 before shocking. After the shock process, maintain the pH between 7.4-7.8 by adding acid. It is true that your pH will tend to rise faster for the first year of new plaster, but it sure doesn't mean to let it get above 7.8.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    Thanks for your reply @Killer95Stang. The cover installer is licensed. I do have a contract but there is nothing specific to this type incident in the contract. I guess i'll move forward with getting estimates. Thanks again.
    JonnyBonz
    24,000 gal, 17x39 freeform, Plaster, Zodiac DE filter, 1.5hp Jandy HP Plus pump, Fusion Nature 2. Installed June 2012.

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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    Thanks ping. I will drop the pH to 7.2-7.4 and shock tomorrow.
    JonnyBonz
    24,000 gal, 17x39 freeform, Plaster, Zodiac DE filter, 1.5hp Jandy HP Plus pump, Fusion Nature 2. Installed June 2012.

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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    All,

    Just an update on my situation. I got the pH down to 7.4 last night and I started the shock process. Using pool calc with 8% bleach 22,300g and CYA of 40, recommended shock level is FC of 16. To go from 0 - 16 i needed to go with 551oz (roughly 4 1/3 gal). I added this last night. This AM when I checked the FC, i was at 20.5. I'm thinking I have the volume of the pool wrong or maybe because the bleach is actually 8.25%. In either case, i wanted to know if there is an issue with shocking that high.

    The other thing was that my CC was 0. Does that mean I am done shocking and I can let the FC level go down to 3-7?

    Thanks in advance.
    JonnyBonz
    24,000 gal, 17x39 freeform, Plaster, Zodiac DE filter, 1.5hp Jandy HP Plus pump, Fusion Nature 2. Installed June 2012.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnybonz
    All,

    Just an update on my situation. I got the pH down to 7.4 last night and I started the shock process. Using pool calc with 8% bleach 22,300g and CYA of 40, recommended shock level is FC of 16. To go from 0 - 16 i needed to go with 551oz (roughly 4 1/3 gal). I added this last night. This AM when I checked the FC, i was at 20.5. I'm thinking I have the volume of the pool wrong or maybe because the bleach is actually 8.25%. In either case, i wanted to know if there is an issue with shocking that high.

    The other thing was that my CC was 0. Does that mean I am done shocking and I can let the FC level go down to 3-7?

    Thanks in advance.
    Not a problem with going that high. It's still below mustard algae shock level.

    There are 3 criteria to end the shock process. (Get in the habit of using that phrase; you'll be answering questions soon) and you've only got one so far. Maybe two: how does the water look? Sparkling clear? Until you get an accurate reading after the sun goes down and another before the sun comes up and they are within 1.0 of each other, you can't say you're through.

    Tortoise and hare. Don't ease up so close to the finish line and let the algae catch up!
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    THanks Richard. The water is sparkling so I fill check on the final criteria tonight and tomorrow morn. So as long as I have a loss of 1 or less on the FC I should be good?

    When will it be safe to go in the water? I need to wait until the FC goes between 3-7?

    Thanks again.
    JonnyBonz
    24,000 gal, 17x39 freeform, Plaster, Zodiac DE filter, 1.5hp Jandy HP Plus pump, Fusion Nature 2. Installed June 2012.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnybonz
    THanks Richard. The water is sparkling so I fill check on the final criteria tonight and tomorrow morn. So as long as I have a loss of 1 or less on the FC I should be good?

    When will it be safe to go in the water? I need to wait until the FC goes between 3-7?

    Thanks again.
    It's safe to swim all the way up to shock level for your CYA. Remember the pH test isn't 100-% accurate above 10 FC, so you may want to let it drop below 10, check and adjust pH as needed, and then jump in. Wrong pH can really leave your skin and hair dry and itchy.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    All, I think i got everything under control now. Pool is perfectly balanced using BBB. Thanks for all your help. Now I have one additional question. I just installed my solar cover yesterday. If I need to add chemicals, can I just fold over the solar cover 1/3 of the way and pour in the chemicals or do i need to remove the solar cover entirely.

    Thanks again.
    JonnyBonz
    24,000 gal, 17x39 freeform, Plaster, Zodiac DE filter, 1.5hp Jandy HP Plus pump, Fusion Nature 2. Installed June 2012.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Just opened today 5/17. Need some help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnybonz
    All, I think i got everything under control now. Pool is perfectly balanced using BBB. Thanks for all your help. Now I have one additional question. I just installed my solar cover yesterday. If I need to add chemicals, can I just fold over the solar cover 1/3 of the way and pour in the chemicals or do i need to remove the solar cover entirely.

    Thanks again.
    Just peel it back enough so you can pour whatever in front of the return stream so it disperses fast.

    If you leave the cover on a lot, you won't lose a lot of FC to the sun. However, you also won't lose a lot of CC to the sun, either. Don't panic if it reads high. Pull the cover off and let it run in the sun an hour or so before testing.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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