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Thread: Is she nuts?!

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    Casey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    SW PA

    Is she nuts?!

    Copy/pasting comment made to me after I posted about my son getting sick from a Lunchable.

    Just adding to the pool angle.....could sorely use correcting where applicable from our members more knowledgeable in chemistry as I'm working from an ancient memory.

    chloroamines (sp) are poor disinfectants against viruses and the more potent disinfectant agent formed by sodium hypochlorite is hypochlorous acid. Noroviruses are transmitted readily through a variety of pathways including stool. It's my understanding pools are infamous for its transmision and that Norovirus is more difficult to disinfect for than Hepatitis. It's my understanding the recommendation is that persons with gastroenteritis or diarrhea not enter swimming pools until two weeks after infection because of this and it's overall infectiousness. (Maybe I'm wrong)

    I'm also of the understanding that the more effective disinfecting agent in chlorine is hypochlorus acid which is readily lost over time when chlorine becomes liquid (liquid chlorine) and that household bleach contains less of this form than pool chlorine. Call me a sucker and I could be wrong.

    Chem whizzes, I could stand some correcting, this is all very foggy for me.

    So I might as head down the foggy path further and say that "CYA", I understand to be a stabilizer of sorts for chlorine in sunlight, retained over time in the water to the point it can significantly renders chlorine ineffective (even if a pool smells strongly like chlorine) Pool sanitization should not be based on whether a pool smells like chlorine.

    Anyway, this is all so foggy for me that one way we avoid the pitfalls is to drain nearly all the water out of the pool at the beginning of each season and start fresh. No "old chlorine/pool chemical" byproducts that interfere with santization or stabilization of the water.

    No advice, just what I barely remember. You'll probably never know what caused it, but at this point, since your son has been back in the pool so soon after the initial illness, you should make sure what would kill any "what-if's".

    Okay, I started a thread at a site I visit about Lunchables and my son got sick from them, the Lunchables. She went on this diatribe about how I sanitize my pool and wrote the above. Well, I explained to her the BBB method I'm using and she thinks he did indeed get sick from swimming in my pool because bleach is ineffective.

    I beg to differ though cuz my kids have never gotten sick from using it other than an ear ache because my son got water in his ear.... he's a chronic sufferer but wears plugs.

    What do you guys think?
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Flower Mound, TX
    It has been well documented that bleach is effective in eliminating norovirus and the viruses that cause hepatitis on surfaces. Actually, with respect to the resistance of these viruses to disinfectants, she actually has it backwards. The virus that causes hepatitis (particularly Hep C), is an extremely tough virus to eliminate. Norovirus is not nearly as hardy. HCV has been documented as being able to live on dry surfaces more up to six weeks. Now, I'm not sure how sodium hypochlorite performs against these pathogens while suspended in water but I would imagine that it is very similar to its effectiveness against them on surfaces.

    With regard to her explanation on swimming pool disinfection, it is clear that she lacks the basic understanding of the BBB method when compared to conventional methods (trichlor, etc.) in the sense that, once dissolved in the pool water, sodium hypochlorite is the active disinfecting agent irregardless of whether you use simple bleach, powder, or tablets. She seems to understand CYA to a degree but probably doesn't understand that those of us who practice BBB are active in determining whether or not we have an appropriate ratio of FC to CYA to ensure appropriate sanitation and are well aware of the relationship as a whole. This is why most of us on the BBB plan rarely, if ever have to shock as we just don't have CC that often.

    Aside from this, she makes a good point about keeping kids with diarrhea out of the pool for a period of time after any sort of enteritis that could be considered infectious.

    Sorry he got so sick. Bet he won't eat a Lunchable for a while. Nothing makes me so sad as seeing my little girl with an upset tummy!
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
    TF Test Kits - Pool Math - Pool School
    "It depends."- JohnT

  3. Back To Top    #3
    whoozer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Acton Maine
    Well Duh keep a kid with diarhea out of the pool. Common sense! In short yes she's crazy Who knows with kids, could have been anything really that made him sick. The reality is kids pick up stomach viruses non stop! Fact of life. It doesn't mean they need to wear a bubble if they go in a pool. Your comfortable with BBB, just stick to what you know, she obviously has no idea about the method. Those that don't get defensive I find.
    14x33 fiberglass freeform
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    ivyleager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    This sure proves the point: A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!
    36 x 18 IG vinyl, 25K, 1 HP pump, sand filter
    1 skimmer, 2 returns, no main drain
    Old school: PoolSolutions test kit

  5. Back To Top    #5
    SeanB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Missouri City (suburb of Houston, TX)
    Where did she get off on chloramines? When using bleach, we test and maintain Free Chlorine.

    Chloramines, or combined chlorine (CC), comes from chlorine being bound to organics in your pool water (nitrogen and ammonia). When chloramines are high, is whey you experience that "chlorine smell." The funny part about that is it means you need more chlorine, not less.

    The short answer is, you do not sanitize your pool with chloramines. Chloramines (combined chlorine) is a by product of not maintaining a high enough level of free chlorine.

    When doing BBB, we test and maintain FC levels. Chlorine is the best sanitizer availalbe - period. For someone who spends so much time disqualifying her own chemistry knowledge, she ought not be giving advice. jmo.
    TFP Founder

    My Pool: 13K gal IG gunite with 7' spa, Pentair Cartridge Filter, Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Polaris 280 Cleaner, TF-100 Test Kit w/ salt test.

  6. Back To Top    #6
    BBB is NOT a method of swimming pool maintenance. It's just testing and maintaining the water properly, usually by using sodium hypochlorite (which is known as either liquid chlorine or bleach depending on where you buy it. Funny thing, the liquid chlorine distrubutor we deal with that we get the 'pool chlorine' from sometimes refers to it as 'bleach'!
    The person who wrote that kept asking for the chemical experts to correct her. Well, you can tell her that she is pretty much off the target!

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    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    "Is she nuts?!"

    27' Round AG, 17,200 gallons, sand filter

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Casey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    SW PA
    Thank YOU!

    ThAnK YoU!


    I just wanted to say that if you can disinfect drinking water with bleach, there is no reason why you can't swim in a pool maintained with bleach!

    JMO and I told her too.

    And I'd also like to add that we have an active chemist on the board and she never once came to her defense. I assume she knew I knew my stuff and it's all because of TFP!

    Thank you from the bottom of my sparkling pool!

    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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