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Thread: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

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    New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Hello everyone,

    I'm a new member to the forum and have read a bunch of information on the forum and gone through Pool School. I thought I knew what I was doing, but clearly, I was mistaken.

    I have struggled with green algae the last two years and at the end of last season, we had a Mesh Safety cover installed and I closed the pool for the first time by myself. (After watching the guy close it before and doing much of the work myself, really all he did was blow out the lines for me and put the cover on, although still charged me 85-250 dollars... Sigh)

    After peeking at the crystal clear water much of winter, I cracked the side of the cover open to peek in again, more freaking green algae. It's mostly up on the sides of the pool, closest to the cover, but it's still pretty nasty.

    Just got my TF-100 in the mail today and was all excited to get this season started. Here are my results.

    FC=0
    CC=0
    TC=0
    pH=6.8
    TA=60
    CH=200
    CYA=0? I could still see the dot after putting all my water in the cylinder. This was especially was a big surprise considering I've been a user of 3" Leslie's Chlorine Tabs until this past season. I was really expecting it to be off the charts.

    So, now I'm at a point where I don't know where to start. Which value do I work on first?

    Planning on pulling the cover off on Saturday and beginning this long process. I will definitely include pics if anyone wants to see.

    Thanks,
    Mark
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    Add CYA up to 30ppm, raise the pH up into the low 7s, start the shock process.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Get it full and start it circulating. Then take another set of test results after an hour or so. You might have a layer of rainwater above the pool water since your cover is mesh.

    That said. if the readings hold true, add some borax to raise pH (or pH increaser/soda ash if you already own some), add CYA to about 30 and let it hang there in an orphaned sock in front of a return, and hit it with bleach. Instructions are in Pool School under the How-to perform the shock process.

    Once the water is clear, the algae is gone, and you pass the overnight loss test and the CC test, let the FC drop below 10 and take another set of readings. Then fine tune. Getting rid of the algae is the hard part. Balancing the rest can be done in an afternoon, no problem.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    BoDarville's Avatar
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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    ^ What they said.

    One thing to keep in mind, especially if the shock process is taking considerably longer than you expect...The CYA going to 0 over the winter is primarily caused by bacterial growth that can consume the CYA. It is not common, but it can happen, especially if FC stays at 0 ppm for some time. The bacteria can convert the CYA to either (1) ammonia or (2) nitrogen gas. Hope for the latter. If it turns out that the microbes converted the CYA to ammonia, it will take prodigious amounts of chlorine to get rid of it and thus the shock process can take longer than if you were just fighting algae. If they turned the CYA into nitrogen gas, then that will have little to no effect on the length of the shock process.
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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    That said. if the readings hold true, add some borax to raise pH (or pH increaser/soda ash if you already own some), add CYA to about 30 and let it hang there in an orphaned sock in front of a return, and hit it with bleach.
    I had a question on this. Two things actually. First, the CYA. I've heard a few things so far, put it in the sock in the skimmer, dump it slowly in the skimmer, or as you said, hang it in front of the return jet. Which is the best?

    Secondly, once I start brushing the algae and mixing it up, my DE filter is going to clog up pretty fast. But it also says not to backwash when putting CYA in the pool. Should I just take the filter apart and spray off the fingers instead of backwashing?

    Thanks so much for all the info. Went to Walmart tonight and found the bleach section completely empty. But talked to a nice stock person who found me the "Value Pack" of 3 bottles!
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Quote Originally Posted by markc99
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    That said. if the readings hold true, add some borax to raise pH (or pH increaser/soda ash if you already own some), add CYA to about 30 and let it hang there in an orphaned sock in front of a return, and hit it with bleach.
    I had a question on this. Two things actually. First, the CYA. I've heard a few things so far, put it in the sock in the skimmer, dump it slowly in the skimmer, or as you said, hang it in front of the return jet. Which is the best?

    Secondly, once I start brushing the algae and mixing it up, my DE filter is going to clog up pretty fast. But it also says not to backwash when putting CYA in the pool. Should I just take the filter apart and spray off the fingers instead of backwashing?

    Thanks so much for all the info. Went to Walmart tonight and found the bleach section completely empty. But talked to a nice stock person who found me the "Value Pack" of 3 bottles!
    You have captured the essence of the sock method entirely. If you poured the granules directly into the skimmer, they would get trapped in the filter and you would lose them all when you backwashed. By keeping them out of the filter, you can backwash without losing any measurable CYA. You can also give the sock a squeeze to speed it along and tell when it's done dissolving.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    You guys rock. Seriously.

    Thank you. I'll keep you updated with my progress.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Welp, I just pulled the cover off and it was a little worse then I thought. I'm posting two pictures because I'm not sure if I'm dealing with standard green algae or some other type.

    DE filter is soaking right now, so I should have the water circulating by tomorrow. Attaching pics for your enjoyment.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Looks like it's time to shock. Reread the shocking article in pool school two or three times before you start, and ask lots of question. Oh yeah, and more pictures, please!!
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Thanks for the pics

    Well, there are a gazillion kinds of algae and you got at least one of them. One thing that holds true is that chlorine will kill it

    Good for you for getting the TF100. Your pool will be beautiful soon!
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    This going to be fun to watch! (I can say that because I do not have to do any of the work).

    Start shopping for bleach now. Go ahead and get as much as you can carry and then some.

    It can be done. It will take time and POP(Pool owner patience)!

    Keep the pics coming with any updates and questions!
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Well, more progress. I have the sock attached and I'm getting the CYA into the pool. (Photo attached, thought you guys would get a kick out my McGuyver job there.)

    After running through the Pool Calculator, it told me to put 80oz by weight of soda ash in to get my pH up to 7.5. Apparently I should have listened and took another test after running the pump, cause I ended up with a pH of 8.2-8.5.

    SOOOO, I just got done putting 32oz's of Muriatic Acid in. I'm going to let the pump run all night and test pH again in the morning before making any more pH changes.

    I ran to Walmart again tonight and bought them out of Value Pack's of bleach. So I have 12 gallons on hand to begin attacking the algae with all my soldiers tomorrow.

    Also, TA has risen to 80 without me adding anything to change that particular test.

    More to come...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    I believe the TA test is +/- 10 ppm, so your results fall within range. If your TA is 70, the first test was minus 10 ppm, or 60. The second test was +10 ppm, or 80. I think this math adds up, but I'm not 100% positive because I'm tired. Anyone else care to confirm?
    John
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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Quote Originally Posted by markc99
    Well, more progress. I have the sock attached and I'm getting the CYA into the pool. (Photo attached, thought you guys would get a kick out my McGuyver job there.)
    HA! Love it!

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnN
    I believe the TA test is +/- 10 ppm, so your results fall within range. If your TA is 70, the first test was minus 10 ppm, or 60. The second test was +10 ppm, or 80. I think this math adds up, but I'm not 100% positive because I'm tired. Anyone else care to confirm?
    I agree with this. Your TA is fine for the shock process. You can fix it later, don't worry about it for now.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Just re-tested pH, it's between 7.2 and 7.5, so I'm beginning the shock process. Just dumped 302 oz of bleach in the pool. Then starting the re-test, dump, brush, re-test, dump, backwash, re-test, dump, backwash phase.

    Soon, I shall have my clear pool back.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    I have begun the shock process. I brought the FC up to 10 according to the PoolCalculator. I tested 30 mins later, and the level had dropped to 4 already. I put enough back into bring it back up to 10 and began the brushing process. I attached a picture halfway through the process. BEWARE....THE ABYSS of the deep end.

    I brushed, which took ~30 minutes and tested again, the level was at 13.5. I'm going to wait another 30 minutes and test it again. Probably will have to backwash the DE by that point.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    We love pictures!

    Don't be too hasty about backwashing. You'll lose a lot of water if you get fanatical. Just watch the gauge and do it when it rises 25%.

    You might try aiming one of the return jets down to stir up the deep end a little. I had to use channellocks to loosen the collar so I could move the eyeball.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    We love pictures! :thumbsup:

    Don't be too hasty about backwashing. You'll lose a lot of water if you get fanatical. Just watch the gauge and do it when it rises 25%.

    You might try aiming one of the return jets down to stir up the deep end a little. I had to use channellocks to loosen the collar so I could move the eyeball.
    I haven't had to backwash it yet, so far just bumping it has been good enough. The initial "clean" psi was 21, so if my math is correct, if I can't bump it down past 26, I should backwash. Right?

    Tested again, FC is at 11 now. Going to wait an hour and then test and return to shock level if needed.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Quote Originally Posted by markc99
    I haven't had to backwash it yet, so far just bumping it has been good enough. The initial "clean" psi was 21, so if my math is correct, if I can't bump it down past 26, I should backwash. Right?

    Tested again, FC is at 11 now. Going to wait an hour and then test and return to shock level if needed.
    Correct.

    Have you tried aiming an eyeball? Or is the water too cold to stick your arm in?
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New BBB trainee, need a plan for this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Quote Originally Posted by markc99
    I haven't had to backwash it yet, so far just bumping it has been good enough. The initial "clean" psi was 21, so if my math is correct, if I can't bump it down past 26, I should backwash. Right?

    Tested again, FC is at 11 now. Going to wait an hour and then test and return to shock level if needed.
    Correct.

    Have you tried aiming an eyeball? Or is the water too cold to stick your arm in?
    I moved my CYA teabag to the shallow end and aimed the deep end eye to shoot down. We'll see how well it mixes... I usually try to aim them both in a way as to create a semi whirlpool to get the dirt to settle in the middle. I only had success doing that one time though...
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

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