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Thread: Help!

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Help!

    We filled our pool for the first time yesterday. The pool company sent someone out here to teach us how to use the pump and put chemicals in.

    The pool is green, this guy says because of the minerals in our water. He is putting some mineral suspension to make the minerals into bigger particles so they can be filtered out. Is this ok?

    Then, we said there is a dust that comes off the new pool and we need to brush it twice a day. He said the dust is very alkaline and we need to add Muratic acid to the pool, lots of it, to lower the ph because the dust will keep raising the ph. I said I didn't want him adding anything to my pool until I understood it better and he said he has been doing it for 30 years and if we don't do this then the dust will harden and cover the finish and ruin it forever.

    Then, we said the test kit (the non-Taylor one you guys recommend) is overly complicated and all I need is a test strip.

    He said he has never heard of BBB and that this is what we must do.

    Then, I am supposed to take a water sample to the pool company and they will test for metal in a week. If the metal is gone I am supposed to shock every two weeks and keep the chlorine around 3. He put 3 chlorine pucks in the skimmer.

    My question is, is what this guy is doing ok? I am supposed to add more acid if the ph goes up, like a gallon. He said the pool can't really be taken care of for two weeks because it needs to cure right and I will mess it up if I don't do what he says.

    I really don't like chemicals and my kids are ready to swim yestday. Please let me know if we are doing down a bad path here.
    11,700 gallons, pentair intelliflo variable speed pump, pentair Ultratemp heat pump. In Tampa, FL

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Help!

    Wow, this just goes to prove many years of experience doing things the same way over and over is not a substitute for doing things right. I got into it with a handy man guy a couple of years go over him wiring up a ground fault outlet backwards and he came back with the I have been doing this for 30 years, I perhaps too quickly responded well you have been doing it wrong for 30 years.

    As to your pool, my advice is read pool school a couple of more times to get a better feel for things, tell us more about your pool, your location, etc. Where is this dust coming from, he might well be right about dealing with the dust, but it is hard to say without knowing more, this is why we ask everyone include their location in their profile, that way for example if you live is dust prone West Texas other people with experience about west texas dust can comment, etc.
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  3. Back To Top    #3
    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Help!

    Here is a handy article in pool school that can help you understand the process

    pool-school/pool_plaster_start-up
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Help!

    IF you are not running your pump 24/7, then you do not want the tablets sitting in the skimmer. That can be very harsh on the skimmer and the equipment.

    You also do need to be maintaining the pool starting now. Keep the pH in range, gets some CYA in the water, and maintain the correct FC levels. The new plaster will drive the pH and CH up, but you just have to keep adding acid to maintain the correct pH range.

    Get a full set of test results and post them up.
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  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: Help!

    The link said no swimming for 3 weeks. They told us we could swim tomorrow. And really no heater for that long also? We are supposed to run the pump 24/7 for the next three days. I will do the test soon and post.
    11,700 gallons, pentair intelliflo variable speed pump, pentair Ultratemp heat pump. In Tampa, FL

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Help!

    The basic daily test results that it says not to record were: Cl 2, pH not on the chart, lower than 6.8.
    Then I did the Cl test and added 4 drops so I believe that is an answer of 2.
    Alkalinity was not green after adding R008. I added 5 drops and I believe that is an answer of 50.
    Calcium Hardness was lite pink, not red. It did not turn blue and I stopped adding drops at 40 or so. I did it again and added the 2 drops of R0012 thinking there could be copper from the tap water and it turned a light purple color. After 35 drops it turned blue, so that answer is 350.
    CYA - how does the dot disappear? I poured the whole bottle in the viewing tube and I could see the black dot clear as can be.

    Also, the pool salesperson told me that the pool was 13,500 or 14,000 gallons. This guy today said it was 11,000 gallons.

    I found a website and put in the dimensions and came up with 13.5k. I may not be totally accurate since the stairs make it not a complete rectangle. I think I need to find this out for sure but I didn't see it on any paperwork.
    11,700 gallons, pentair intelliflo variable speed pump, pentair Ultratemp heat pump. In Tampa, FL

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Help!

    These videos might help you understand the testing. http://www.youtube.com/user/TF100TestKit

    CYA is probably too low to test if all the clown did was toss a couple pucks in the skimmer.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: Help!

    According to the calculator, I need 165 washing soda (Borax, right?), 158 baking soda, 9.0 stabilizer (CYA, right). Do I do this with the chlorine in the skimmer and the Muratic acid he added?
    I am also going to brush again and I would guess that would change things. Is there a such thing as over brushing? We want to swim and I want to get this dust gone.
    11,700 gallons, pentair intelliflo variable speed pump, pentair Ultratemp heat pump. In Tampa, FL

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassidy336
    According to the calculator, I need 165 washing soda (Borax, right?), 158 baking soda, 9.0 stabilizer (CYA, right). Do I do this with the chlorine in the skimmer and the Muratic acid he added?
    I am also going to brush again and I would guess that would change things. Is there a such thing as over brushing? We want to swim and I want to get this dust gone.
    Stop and relax!

    Go veeeeery easy on adding stuff. Expect to see pH, TA, and CH climb as the surface cures. There's no point in jacking the levels up only to have to lower them again in a day. And if you have any warranty problems down the line, you can be sure they'll say it was from all your messing with it.

    How to add the various chemicals is in this article in Pool School.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Help!

    Congratulations on your new pool, Cassidy, and welcome to TFP! Just so you know, my own otherwise competent pool construction guy says the same kind of stuff, and after a year of doing it BBB he now does what I say when he helps me open, close, etc.

    Over time, I've put together why -- at least in my case. It's not alway "evil up selling" or even just pain ignorance. They just have to use a lot of stablished products (like tablets, which have cya in them) because they're not there every day to dose the pool, and they generally don't trust customers to DIY well.

    By choosing the path of learning your chemistry now, you are making a decision that will put you in the driver's seat. But the approach you take kind of dictates the methods, so its not worth getting into "right/wrong" with the pool techs (eg. because the approach is different if youre using tablets than liquid chlorine/bleach, because the chemistry is interrelated.) Just learn enough to manage your parameters and you'll be enjoying a trouble free pool!

    I just wanted to weigh in on why its possible to get such "bad" advice from a pool tech....I didn't want you to second guess yourself. Here, we have no need usually to shock at all because we're on top of our pool chemistry through testing. But techs and pool stores will tell you to shock frequently as a bandaid or knee-jerk solution to an improperly managed or neglected pool. They run their chlorine levels lower, because they don't understand or accept that scientifically speaking, the cya level (the stabilizer) makes the dosage of chlorine less effective once it gets to higher levels. It's in the pool industry's fiscal interest to keep people buying products that are stabilized (not unlike food preservatives). So that's what the industry teaches many of them.

    On this thread, we're very fortunate to have access to some very talented chemists, technicians, and researchers who contribute by sharing their technical understanding and simplifying it for our collective benefit.
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  11. Back To Top    #11
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Go veeeeery easy on adding stuff. Expect to see pH, TA, and CH climb as the surface cures.
    Just for emphasis....

    I think what pool guy said about plaster dust and brushing is accurate. That's about it. Read the article about starting up new plaster. ANY chemical adjustments should be done in very gradual amounts. I would not make any adjustments to PH, TA or CH at this time.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Help!

    I didn't add anything last night. When I open the door to go outside the smell of chlorine smacks you in the face so I took the pucks out of the skimmer. The free chlorine is at 1 and the pool water is still green with metals. Should I add some bleach? I just brushed again and the pH is 6.8 but I realize e dust will make that rise.
    11,700 gallons, pentair intelliflo variable speed pump, pentair Ultratemp heat pump. In Tampa, FL

  13. Back To Top    #13
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Help!

    Leave the pucks in the skimmer, leave the filter running 24/7. IF you "smell" chlorine you are smelling Combined Chloramines. Usually a sign there is not ENOUGH Free Chlorine. Using the FAS-DPD test, tell me what your FC and CC levels are.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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  14. Back To Top    #14
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    Leave the pucks in the skimmer, leave the filter running 24/7. IF you "smell" chlorine you are smelling Combined Chloramines. Usually a sign there is not ENOUGH Free Chlorine. Using the FAS-DPD test, tell me what your FC and CC levels are.
    +1 leave the pucks in the skimmer and filter running 24/7.

    The pucks are acidic and will also help keep the pH down. Keep track as to how many you use so that you can later accurately compute the amount of CYA in the pool.

    Here's a link to the National Plasters Council start-up card for more info. You will need to scroll to page 2:

    https://npc.memberclicks.net/assets/doc ... ev3.09.pdf
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  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Help!

    FC is 1, CC is 3.5. I realize the chlorine smell means there isn't enough which is why I am wondering if I should add some.
    11,700 gallons, pentair intelliflo variable speed pump, pentair Ultratemp heat pump. In Tampa, FL

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Help!

    I think you should definitely add some liquid chlorine. You are smelling the CC.

    Last week I went out to my pool to get a sample and while testing the FC, I said to my wife, watch when I add the R-0003 I bet it turns pink because could smell it. Sure enough it turned a little pink ... was still only 0.5ppm though ... so it does not take much to smell if it is the "right" CC
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